i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.
― til the power failure (darraghmac), Monday, 16 January 2012 00:29 (twelve years ago) link
good summation of thesinger killing imo
― til the power failure (darraghmac), Monday, 16 January 2012 00:30 (twelve years ago) link
i dont know why you had to end your post like that, and i dont think anyone on here was really 'hating' either
― maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 16 January 2012 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
eveyone I saw it w/ fell asleep and hated it, I enjoyed it
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 16 January 2012 00:35 (twelve years ago) link
the preview for red tails was way better tho, the sound was all fucked up and it was just random beeps and bloops spilling out of the screen. I was still stoned enough to appreciate what it meant I think
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 16 January 2012 00:37 (twelve years ago) link
i am sorry, it was unclear
i wasn't referring to this thread when i was talking about "hating"
i meant more crap like this: http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2011/09/tinker-tailor-soldier-travesty.html ... i realize its the mail but it seems like a lot of the negative feedback i've seen around the net shares the tone
― the late great, Monday, 16 January 2012 01:03 (twelve years ago) link
srsly though i am very very tired of people comparing film adaptations to miniseries and novels. it really seems like there's not much motive to it other than pointing out that you've done something that other people may or may not have patience for. it strikes me a bit like complaining that the iliad is better in the original greek.
but again, i wasn't actually referring to what's going on on this thread, more what i've seen around the web in general
― the late great, Monday, 16 January 2012 01:06 (twelve years ago) link
this film was Greek to me.
― Dr Morbois de Bologne (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 January 2012 01:07 (twelve years ago) link
LOL
i thought the looks that strong and firth exchange in the xmas party flashback were pretty devastating
the whole xmas party flashback thread was devastating in general
the other amazing "look" in the movie for me was when hayden says "i'm a man who made his mark" and smiley almost starts to reply but then just changes his mind and looks out the window in disgust. pitch-perfect!!
― the late great, Monday, 16 January 2012 01:11 (twelve years ago) link
i dunno, after the movie i said to my companion "best new film i've seen since good shepherd" which maybe tells you i'm not really an impartial judge of this sort of stuff
― the late great, Monday, 16 January 2012 01:12 (twelve years ago) link
the point of killing thesinger is to establish that the russians were willing to "scorched earth" on the matter of irina, which giving her mole story credibility
Exactly! Which is why that, as well as killing Irina, seems uncharacteristically klutzy on the part of Karla, if the Russians' goal is to avoid giving the mole story credibility. Interrogator says to Prideaux "tell Alleline we shot Irina," meaning what? Don't snoop around this mole situation any more or we'll continue to be violent?
― mick signals, Monday, 16 January 2012 01:25 (twelve years ago) link
― the late great, Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:11 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark
i like how oldman briefly comes alive in that scene when he raises his voice for probably the first time in the movie
― maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 16 January 2012 01:30 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, that too!
i think shooting irina was a warning signal for hayden to take care of tarr on his end - its hard to believe polyakov couldn't get the message to him some other way, but maybe their contact was restricted to just the witchcraft house, all of which was taped and reviewed by "housekeeping"
i have to reread the book now and rewatch the series to figure this out
― the late great, Monday, 16 January 2012 01:40 (twelve years ago) link
totally enjoyed this
― Lana Ballantine (latebloomer), Monday, 16 January 2012 08:20 (twelve years ago) link
Very little of the witchcraft house is taped - that's how Smiley brings them down, by taping when they're not expecting it.
It's really not clear to me that any 'message' at all is being sent by killing Irina* in front of Prideaux - he's never seen her before, he is going slightly dotty due to the punishment, how is he supposed to connect her to a girl that Tarr (and only Tarr) has met in Istanbul? The stick used to beat him in the book is that all of his networks in Czechoslovakia are being taken in and shot (and think it's his doing) - what I got from that scene in the film was that they were underlining the futility of his denial and/or administering a series of shocks, some of which would cut deeper than others.
* Also a couple of people I saw it with were very certain it wasn't Irina that was shot then, but I'd have to see it again to tell.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 16 January 2012 10:06 (twelve years ago) link
Interrogator says to Prideaux "tell Alleline we shot Irina," meaning what?
Hang on, does this actually happen?
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 16 January 2012 10:09 (twelve years ago) link
what i remember was something like "tell your masters what you saw here"
that's a good point. i forgot that tarr and prideaux were in different cities. somehow i blended budapest and istanbul together in my mind. on the other hand, as i was thinking about it prideaux wouldn't need to connect the two - but as part of his job, he's going to tell the inquisitors everything he saw and heard. prideaux is a pawn!
but yeah, i might be reading too much into it
i get what you're saying about the shocks, i was thinking that too.
― the late great, Tuesday, 17 January 2012 04:35 (twelve years ago) link
Russian: (In Russian) Do you know this woman?Prideaux: No, I don't know her.A pistol shoots Irina.Russian: Tell Alleline what we did.
Prideaux: No, I don't know her.
A pistol shoots Irina.
Russian: Tell Alleline what we did.
― mick signals, Tuesday, 17 January 2012 19:40 (twelve years ago) link
David Bordwell breaks it down for the perplexed:
http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2012/01/23/tinker-tailor-a-guide-for-the-perplexed/
― Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 January 2012 02:17 (twelve years ago) link
Yes, that is in italics, but does it actually happen?
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 26 January 2012 10:50 (twelve years ago) link
Just sayin'
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 26 January 2012 10:52 (twelve years ago) link
let's try that again
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 26 January 2012 10:53 (twelve years ago) link
That's my personal transcription, stage direction and all, from my viewing. Italics mine as well. But is anyone else disputing though that the shot lady was Irina?
http://i.imgur.com/6El85.png
http://i.imgur.com/oNbmT.png
― mick signals, Thursday, 26 January 2012 18:12 (twelve years ago) link
What?! It's definitely Irina.
― Quand le déshonneur est public, il faut que la vengeance soit (Michael White), Thursday, 26 January 2012 18:15 (twelve years ago) link
none of the difficult bits in the movie are gimmicky tricks from what i remember. i still suspect that some of the stuff that confuses people is a slight failure of story-telling rather than some "Mr Pink shot first" bullshit
― summer sun, something's begun, but uh-oh those tumblr whites (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 January 2012 20:12 (twelve years ago) link
in fact, ignore that particular analogy. there's a school of bullshit dvd-era smartboy over-reading of movies (Reservoir Dogs, Usual Suspects, Inception etc etc etc) which absolutely does not apply to this film and absolutely misses the point of it
― summer sun, something's begun, but uh-oh those tumblr whites (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 January 2012 20:17 (twelve years ago) link
y
― teaky frigger (darraghmac), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:11 (twelve years ago) link
it wasn't mad complicated if you pay decent attention while watching.
― When a German communicates, you listen (LocalGarda), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:32 (twelve years ago) link
i'm always a little unsure how clear the narrative of a movie is if i know the book beforehand, because then you don't notice gaps. but TTSS the movie is all about atmosphere and suggestion, not some stupid puzzle to be solved.
― summer sun, something's begun, but uh-oh those tumblr whites (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:35 (twelve years ago) link
Agreed, I loved this adaptation.
― Nicole, Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:46 (twelve years ago) link
two reasonably intelligent critics I know didn't know there was mansex going on.
― Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:49 (twelve years ago) link
yeah I only picked that up on viewing 2.
― Simon H., Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:50 (twelve years ago) link
It took a couple seconds to realize what had happened; wouldn't call it mansex though.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:50 (twelve years ago) link
the bit where Guillam dumps his lover seems pretty clear? and it's a departure from the novel, so it's not like i was pre-warned
― summer sun, something's begun, but uh-oh those tumblr whites (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:51 (twelve years ago) link
when Haydon/Firth sez "there's a boy as well" near the end it didn't even get through
― Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:53 (twelve years ago) link
are you talking about haydon and prideaux? thats pretty vague in the novel
― max, Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:55 (twelve years ago) link
I would think that that look they exchanged at the Christmas party conveyed enough about their relationship.
― Nicole, Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:56 (twelve years ago) link
iirc the only hints in the novel are a few dropped asides about how BH and JP were "thick as thieves" or whatever
― max, Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:58 (twelve years ago) link
le Carre is coy about homosexuality in the novel, considering what we know about the real life prototypes of the characters. but at the same time that public school blurring between deep friendship and admiration and sexual love seems like a true and useful ambiguity
― summer sun, something's begun, but uh-oh those tumblr whites (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:58 (twelve years ago) link
haydon's bisexuality is made explicit, so i think youre definitely supposed to wonder if the two were lovers
― max, Thursday, 26 January 2012 22:03 (twelve years ago) link
i know what you mean nv about the "smartboy film" thing, but i think TTSS managed to be both ambiguous as well as having a tightly wound plot that does merit a bit of thought afterwards. it felt a bit like you end up assuming some of it rather than being beaten over the head with it.
― When a German communicates, you listen (LocalGarda), Thursday, 26 January 2012 22:10 (twelve years ago) link
some of the shifts are a little more elliptical than others. the setup of the final exposure/confrontation was pretty opaque to me. and i didn't get smiley's arrival at the boys' school -- tho i guess that information is gleaned from the files stolen by guillam.
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Thursday, 26 January 2012 22:13 (twelve years ago) link
i think the film leaves you to fill in the gaps, but also accept that some of the gaps are intended as unknowables, in the same way that the spy's world contains unknowables. i suppose it's not elliptical plots that bother me so much as circular earnest arguments about the "correct" solution.
― summer sun, something's begun, but uh-oh those tumblr whites (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 January 2012 22:14 (twelve years ago) link
the setup of the final exposure in the novel still feels a bit opaque to me and i re-read the fucker 3 or 4 times.
― summer sun, something's begun, but uh-oh those tumblr whites (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 January 2012 22:15 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i hate that kind of shit. i'm kind of anti-nolan solely because of it tbh
xp
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Thursday, 26 January 2012 22:15 (twelve years ago) link
yeah one of my big bugbears with Nolan is i think he invites that shit deliberately
― summer sun, something's begun, but uh-oh those tumblr whites (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 January 2012 22:16 (twelve years ago) link
donnie darko is the pinnacle of that shit.
― When a German communicates, you listen (LocalGarda), Thursday, 26 January 2012 22:17 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i have seen the miniseries and read the book twice each and just saw the movie i still dont really remember how the final trap works
― max, Thursday, 26 January 2012 22:18 (twelve years ago) link
i thought memento was a really unsatisfying exercise. i enjoyed inception somewhat but my first thought as the credits rolled was "i don't want to read a single thing about this shit on the internet"
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Thursday, 26 January 2012 22:18 (twelve years ago) link
anyway, no nolan in the lecarre room
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Thursday, 26 January 2012 22:19 (twelve years ago) link