(Maybe Tuomas could fill us in re Finland.)
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 14 November 2011 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
I am getting 1890s wages
― average internet commentator (remy bean), Monday, 14 November 2011 20:13 (twelve years ago) link
i've been thinking lately about what it's like to be a teaching assistant, since i've had one working for me recently. at many graduate programs they work teaching anywhere from 1-3 discussion sections from their very first semester on campus. that seems to me somewhat like if we expected college freshmen to also, during their first week of classes, start (with no previous experience) acting as assistant teachers, but under basically their own direction, with no in-class oversight, for a roomful of high school students. it's no surprise that it can be stressful for many of them and that often they respond, or appear to respond, by 'not doing very much'. those who ARE doing a lot are doing far more than their students probably realize, given how much catchup with this strange new kind of responsibility can be involved for early-career graduate students.
― j., Monday, 14 November 2011 20:15 (twelve years ago) link
I've always found the system absurd for basically that reason. I'm not that old, and I went to a large public university, but all my undergrad profs were tenured or tenure-track afaik. This was what was great about the experience: these people had jobs where they had the security to do active research or creative work in the field; this informed their teaching. If I'd been taught by grad students and per-course migrant contract workers, I really don't think I might have decided that academia was a life I wanted (which might mean that I would have gone on to a much more promising career path...)
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 14 November 2011 20:30 (twelve years ago) link
(I did have TAs in discussion sections and labs.)
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 14 November 2011 20:34 (twelve years ago) link
being a TA is p stressful imo, i was lucky enough that my funding package allowed to work as an RA/professor's assistant my first year in grad school and had solid ground under my feet before i had to start running tutorials and labs. but there is a p wide range in the amount of work required to TA a course tho, i have a third year course w/ no labs, no assignments and sparsely attended office hours that i skim the reading for each week and thats abt it and i have first year survey course that is like a part time job all on its own
― 808 Police State (Lamp), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 03:13 (twelve years ago) link
another problem is that most grad students aren't gonna be rewarded for being amazing teachers - my best TA in college, who was a far better teacher than any of my tenured profs, couldn't find a permanent academic job after he graduated.
― iatee, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 03:31 (twelve years ago) link
Everything I hear about the European system (um, except for devastating budget cuts) makes it sound better. What do Europeans on this board think?
xpost Yep.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 03:32 (twelve years ago) link
the european system is better for your average student but america has 'the best universities'. I think we need to look more at 60s-era american universities more than 2010-era european universities, cause it's not like we don't do some things pretty successfully, we just have no price control mechanism and we've vastly underfunded our public universities. again, good comparison w/ health care. (tho europe does probably just do that better at this point.)
― iatee, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 03:38 (twelve years ago) link
i try p hard to be a good TA and be an asset to students but realistically i think im there to help the professor first. idk... my last corporate job before grad school was in like the v bottom rung of mgmt but i had a p good report w/ the ppl that i worked with but those skills have not really translated to teaching.
anyway this is p pointless post but being a ta isnt the hardest work but its still p shitty
― 808 Police State (Lamp), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 03:41 (twelve years ago) link
My TAs have sections of 10-15 students, and grade 3 papers, a midterm and a Final- they have to hold regular office hours, attend my lectures, and contribute some paper topics. I don't ask them to give a lecture. I do worry about their compensation, and their treatment, and I host two "grading parties" (one for the midterm, one for the final) at my home where they do the grading with me present so that I can adjudicate borderline cases and so that we can get people's grading ranges more or less in alignment across sections. I take them out for dinner at the end of the semester. I know they're paid far better than I was at UC Berkeley, but I do wonder about the way that academia mostly exists to perpetuate itself, and so the sense that "this is job training for your future career" is supposed to float freely around our interactions, as if we weren't all aware of the shrinking job prospects that surround them. It's a painful time to do this job- I thought my generation of folks going out on the market were about as demoralized as we could be, but it really has gotten worse. I'd say "it's tough all over" and bitch about how much harder it is now to get a book contract but that's a first world problem . . .
― the tune is space, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 03:55 (twelve years ago) link
aw, drew you sound like one of the good ones. my advisor at my program was like that, too, always taking grad students out to dinner and fretting about her role within the system. i think that's the best you can do, really. i'm sure your TAs notice and appreciate it.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:06 (twelve years ago) link
lol one time she asked me to look in on her cats for a week while she was out of town and compensated me outrageously well for it
the european system is better for your average student but america has 'the best universities'.
Ha, at this point, I was actually thinking about 'better/fairer' for junior faculty and graduate students.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:10 (twelve years ago) link
(Marking parties are the only way to go btw.)
I believe it's very tough to get a position in europe too. I'm basing that mostly off what I know about the french system.
― iatee, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:12 (twelve years ago) link
It is.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:13 (twelve years ago) link
Oh, I meant it's tough if you're not from there. I don't know what it's like if you're a citizen.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:14 (twelve years ago) link
I know people who could get academic work here but not there, if that says anything
― iatee, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:14 (twelve years ago) link
(french ppl)
this thread is just bumming me the fuck out rn :/
― 808 Police State (Lamp), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:16 (twelve years ago) link
Yes, I was supposed to do a Ph.D... too bad academia doesn't exist in the US anymore.
― burt_stanton
― buzza, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:20 (twelve years ago) link
haha I know someone applying to philosophy phds and law school at the same time now
― iatee, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:21 (twelve years ago) link
he says I'm "really a downer"
― iatee, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:22 (twelve years ago) link
Close race for worse idea there. At least there is some chance of getting funding for the PhD.
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:41 (twelve years ago) link
that said, our grad students do get jobs- there are jobs out there- it's just really, really competitive and hard, and likely to stay that way as the adjunctification / "casualization" of the academic labor force continues to widen the gap between the haves and have nots
― the tune is space, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:51 (twelve years ago) link
http://thesocietypages.org/graphicsociology/files/2010/12/tenure_dies.png
― iatee, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 04:58 (twelve years ago) link
That graph is missing some context. Would really like to know how the increasing proportion of part time faculty relates to the increasing student population, what institutions are adding those jobs, etc.
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 05:03 (twelve years ago) link
My college (which, ugh, mistake) was something insane like 95% adjunct, which they sold as "nearly all our instructors are working artists, imparting real world knowledge [like how to survive at 38 with no health insurance]"
― ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 05:13 (twelve years ago) link
(95% is an exaggeration, it's more like 75% now that I actually look)
― ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 05:15 (twelve years ago) link
I almost want to try founding a college if I finish my PhD. Academia could use some entrepreneurism, and not the evil kind.
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 05:16 (twelve years ago) link
Pipe dreamin'
::6 years later silby, now dreamless and pipeless, takes a lucrative job in consulting, hoping to own a new pair of shoes for the first time in half a decade::
― jon /bia /tche 2.0 (Lamp), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 05:20 (twelve years ago) link
My current shoes are over two years old!
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 05:28 (twelve years ago) link
silby, vanderbilt is offering me a half-tuition scholarship + an ipad, can the university of silby match their offer?
― iatee, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 05:36 (twelve years ago) link
We will have a room at the community center and free water fountain water.
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 05:38 (twelve years ago) link
…need to get in to a PhD program first…
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 05:46 (twelve years ago) link
― ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay)
ha, i wonder if we share an alma mater or if many art schools operate this way (which wouldn't surprise me).
― 1staethyr, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 05:53 (twelve years ago) link
#2
― iatee, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 05:57 (twelve years ago) link
even most of the course heads in my school were part time
― plax (ico), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 09:29 (twelve years ago) link
Suggest Ban Permalinkthe european system is better for your average student but america has 'the best universities'.Ha, at this point, I was actually thinking about 'better/fairer' for junior faculty and graduate students.― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:10 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:10 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark
If you're any sort of scientist, PhD funding is relatively easy to get (and not tied to TA-ing) and there are still quite a lot of postdoc positions. However, permanent jobs in my corner of Europe are few to none.
― fun drive (seandalai), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 11:38 (twelve years ago) link
yep
― caek, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 16:16 (twelve years ago) link
most of the course heads in my school were part time
"Part-time employees" is so gauche. It's high time we started calling them "itinerant scholars".
― Aimless, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:52 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/brain-drain-college-grads-wall-street_n_1069424.html?page=1
― dayo, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 21:22 (twelve years ago) link
The young man, who requested anonymity in order to speak openly, graduated with more than $100,000 in debt. He has now whittled that amount down to $80,000.
He does not particularly enjoy his job and he's actively searching for other opportunities. He says the management team at his company isn't helping him grow, and many of his daily tasks are "monotonous" and focused on "damage control."
He wants to make sure his next step is the right one before leaving. But part of the reason he's stayed for three years is because the job compensates well. Between his salary and annual bonus, he's making about $85,000 a year.
I so do not buy the "nyc has such a high cost of living" excuse
― iatee, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 21:27 (twelve years ago) link
is that pre or post tax
― dayo, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 21:28 (twelve years ago) link
pre, and taxes are pretty high here, it's true
but seriously anyone w/ that kinda debt and income owes it to himself to pay it down asap
― iatee, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 21:31 (twelve years ago) link
he probably likes 'going out' and 'eating at nice restaurants'
― dayo, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 21:33 (twelve years ago) link
and 'living in a 2000/m studio'
― iatee, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 21:34 (twelve years ago) link
look at it this way; he's putting approx 10% of his post-tax income towards his school loans a year
he could likely pay more but, in general, school loan debt is good to carry if you can reliably make your payments because of the lower interest rate; it makes much more sense for him to be focusing larger chunks of cash on savings/investing strategies and making sure he has a reserve to cover his credit cards
gotta say though, 85K including bonus sounds a little like he got boned (rip 90s)
― sex-poodle Al Gore (DJP), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 21:44 (twelve years ago) link