White trick-or-treaters in blackface: C/D?

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This is the most idiotic thread I've ever read.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:09 (twenty years ago)

here's a photo of me as requested
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/kenjuggle3/2.jpg

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:10 (twenty years ago)

krowr, ken.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

er...

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

This is the most idiotic thread I've ever read.
-- Alfred Soto (sotoal...), November 1st, 2005.

u musn't have been here long

― comment, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, Alfred, search for some of the old "shout for the moderator" threads if you think this is bad!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

the attitude that leads to avoiding actually vocalizing offensive words (vs. just indicating them with stuff like 'N*****' or 'f4g') is part and parcel with the attitude that has people convinced that God prefers being written as G-D.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

yes and another reason for that attitude is part and parcel with holding a civilized discussion throughout a wide group of people who may not agree with you on the white heterosexual right to say those words

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

This is precisely what I mean: bad analogies.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

i mean i used to make fun of sterl for writing "n-a" when quoting rap lyrics but i was a teenager w/ teenage friends, since growing up and talking to older people who actually fought in civil rights battles instead of mostly reaping the rewards of it i can understand the power those words still hold no matter what the context

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

yeah go choke on cock "alfred soto" you came in the thread after 300 new answers to post rocky horror jpgs and whine about it

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

I actually don't think I even understand that analogy.

xpost I do understand what "choke on cock" means though.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

that attack doesn't seem helpful.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

thanks jaymc

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

it seems like every insult either suggests that sex (usually gay sex) is unpleasant or insults the person's mother. that's why I settle for "eat shit." scatmunchers can deal with the aspersion. I should probably be embarassed that I've thought about this.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

Out of curiosity (and not to pull some "aha! hypocrite!" bullshit), does cross-dressing deserve a similarly hardline inexcusability? or is sexual identity different enough from racial identity (with transgenderism and all) to make it permissable? there's definitely an offensive theatrical history in regards to women.
-- miccio (anthonyisrigh...), November 1st, 2005.

It depends how you're defining "cross-dressing". This is a HUGE subject, and needs its own thread, if it doesn't already have one.

I know I'm probably stating the obvious, but dressing in women's clothing because it fulfills some inner need or because it feels right are very different than dressing up in women's clothes to set out to mock women. For the most part, I'd say that people of either sex dressing in a manner that subverts traditional gender-roles serves to challenge patriachy, rather than to reaffirm it.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:26 (twenty years ago)

actually, white heterosexuals, like black homosexuals, have the constitutional right, barring some limited circumstances, to say any word they please.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:26 (twenty years ago)

As for "go choke on cock" - you say that like its a bad thing...

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:26 (twenty years ago)

err..x-post

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:27 (twenty years ago)

and ken...you look HOT in a shower curtain.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:29 (twenty years ago)

I wrote a whole paper on this once -- I think drag is fairly problematic, esp. drag of the Dame Edna/Mrs. Doubtfire/Aunt Blabby/Sheneneh/Geraldine variety.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

Did you get an A?

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

Transvestism, while it does destabilize the assumption that gender is based on biological sex, does actually promote and reaffirm some rather oppressive stereotypes of "feminine" behavior and appearance, especially when the physical body becomes plastic through surgical procedure. (q.v. Amanda Lepore)

That said, I think you might have trouble proving that transgendered individuals actually feel oppressed by gender signifiers they have chosen.

― elmo (allocryptic), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:33 (twenty years ago)

Did you get an A?

It was in the UK -- I don't remember how their crazy grading system worked.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

"I wrote a whole paper on this once" = I have lots of thoughts on this, but I'm too tired to actually go into it now.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

Most straight guys who wear women's clothing as a joke (Rocky Horror nights, Halloween) are doing it cuz it's fun; it's got fuck-all to do with misogyny or a latent hatred of women. Hobart paving OTM upthread.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

Sorry if this sounds like I'm point out the obvious, but..

transverstism!=drag

And transgender issues are another thing altogether, and don't really belong in the same conversation.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

And telling someone to "suck cock" shows more unconscious fear/hatred of homosex than most straight men who wear fishnet and heels on Halloween.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:40 (twenty years ago)

No, I know, Hobart; the men I'm referring to are neither transexuals nor transvestites; they just like dressing like chicks on Halloween.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

sorry, that was an x-post. A few of the posts above seem to conflate drag and transvestisism (or whatever the noun is). Not the same thing at all..

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:45 (twenty years ago)

he said 'choke on', not suck on. i would've thought anyone would not want to choke, regardless of what it is they're choking on and the whys.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:45 (twenty years ago)

i guess then you could substitute cock for....beernuts?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:46 (twenty years ago)

I was being a little bit flip, steve... wrong thread for it, maybe.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

I understand the terms "drag" and "transvestism" are not synonymous, but what is the distinction? If a man lives "as a man" and dresses up on weekends to perform at a drag show, is practicing drag or transvestism? As distinct from men who dress up as chick for laffs, as well as distinct from men living "as women."

― elmo (allocryptic), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

i would've thought anyone would not want to choke, regardless of what it is they're choking on and the whys

your assumption would be wrong, for i know several people who quite enjoy choking on cock

― elmo (allocryptic), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

i guess then you could substitute cock for....beernuts?
-- Sociah T Azzahole (stevem7...), November 1st, 2005.

...and I'll reflect on this the next time I suck on a beernut.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

The situation you give is "drag", if I'm understanding your question correctly. The distinction is that the one is for "show" and the other is for more personal need.

I still don't really see that there's anything intrinsically offensive in a man wearing a dress. If it IS used to mock, that's another scenario entirely.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO ACTUALLY CHOKE ON COCK ARE SICKO FREAKS AND MUST BE STOPPED.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

I can think of precisely one case where a white dude dressing up as Ben Wallace has worked:

http://www.hrwiki.org/images/d/d9/StrongMad_BenWallace.PNG

― disco violence (disco violence), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

hey stelfox, choke on me wang

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

On a more (attempted; failed) serious note there is definitely a post-South Park douchetarian "fuck you, I do what I want" anti-PC backlash element to a lot of things people of my generation consider worth fucking with in the pursuit of Boffo Laffs, because being "sensitive" of "other cultures" is for "fags". Just not sure how seven-year-olds fit into it. (Dumbshit parents? Another story.)

― disco violence (disco violence), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

-- Alfred Soto (sotoal...) (webmail), Today 10:18 AM. (Alfred Soto) (later) (link)

Explain to me how this is a bad analogy.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:30 (twenty years ago)

I mean a**logy.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:31 (twenty years ago)

Unlike "nigger" or "fag," "God" is not an offensive word -- and I'm a proud atheist!

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

disco violence OTM

xpost There is at least one religion where it's sacrilegious to write the name of God fully. It might not be offensive to you, but it is to them.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://www.slamonline.com/links/dmiles.jpg

― scrimhaw1837 (son_of_scrimshaw), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

So is Darrell Hammond being racist when he dons blackface and does his Jesse Jackson impersonation?

― elmo (allocryptic), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:48 (twenty years ago)

it's a good thing this kid didn't go as God Shamgod.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

So is Darrell Hammond being racist when he dons blackface and does his Jesse Jackson impersonation?

Just unfunny like just about everything else on that show.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

I got in a small altercation with a guy in blackface yesterday, but there was a reason: this guy couldn't claim to be ignorant of "historical context" and such, insofar as he'd actually drawn in the "comically" large blackface lips. Also: this was exactly 50% of his costume, the other 50% being a big-ass plastic clock medallion. I dunno: if he was supposed to be Flav, you'd think he could have found a track suit, right?

To be honest I think my annoyance has a lot to do with method. If someone's supposed to be a specific black person, and they've done a decent/realistic job with the makeup, that's not so bothersome. When people do their faces in all-around jet black apart from the lips, they look like minstrels and piss me off. When people just smear shoe polish around their faces like that's really, really hilarious, that pisses me off even more.

NB I sometimes think people who get offended by Apu are dipping into the backward-racist category: Apu doesn't really have any negative stereotypes associated with him! I mean, cooking him up for the purpose of running the convenience store is a little obvious, but beyond that they've made him pretty much the most dignified character on the show -- cf when his religion gets classified as "other" and he says "I am Hindu, there are nearly a billion of us."

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:52 (twenty years ago)

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