Shall we anticpate the AMC series "Breaking Bad"? I think I may.

Don't even want some "this is how bad walt really was to you" realisation.

Seriously, even though it would be out of character for the show to spare us this

what i loved about the show is how it has mostly avoided through four seasons throwing any soap opera "oh this shit is happening for really no reason at all other than to just be shocking and random" moments in there...for almost every major event, seeds were planted as far as several seasons in advance, like Marie's relapse into shoplifting, Walt's obvious chip on his shoulder and wanting to be the alpha dog and refusing charity (which goes back to the pilot), etc.

also love how slowly Walt began to digest the 'game', ie, very erratic in early seasons, and even when he starts to become a 'mastermind', he makes lots of mistakes and acts in ways that other seasoned criminals roll their eyes at.

sorta hate that Jesse gets this sympathy-vote reaction. dude is a fucking scumbag, his druggie ethics are some bullshit, anything walt gives him he sorta has coming - not from walt, obv., walt doesn't have any right to fuck up Jessie's life, but Jessie as quasi-noble meth dealer is some heavy eyerolling stuff for me

Jesse was never a violent criminal until he was literally forced into company with Walt (to avoid possible jailtime). he was just a small/mid-level meth cooker/dealer. what he grew into he almost always did because Walt forced his hand.

yea he's a monster, but he at least doesn't revel in it and he knows who he is. he's really one of the few hardened criminals in the show that has a hard time reconciling what he is.

It's not that he's noble.it's that he's p normal and not a complete sociopath like Walt,which in comparison makes him the nice guy.

I wonder if they'll show flashbacks that hint that even earlier in Walter's life (pre-cancer) he was equally manipulative.

I'm sure they're going to explore the connection between him and the Rosses and how he fell out with them....

I'm not.

what i loved about the show is how it has mostly avoided through four seasons throwing any soap opera "oh this shit is happening for really no reason at all other than to just be shocking and random" moments in there...for almost every major event, seeds were planted as far as several seasons in advance, like Marie's relapse into shoplifting, Walt's obvious chip on his shoulder and wanting to be the alpha dog and refusing charity (which goes back to the pilot), etc.

see this is why i don't respect the show that much, to me it's the ultimate gritty cable soap opera with TONS or random shocking developments.

I disagree. Unlike the Sopranos, where someone would accidentally burn their house down or kill Ralphie Cifaretto over something really, really pointless, almost every development on this show could be traced to events in prior seasons.

i don't think agree that plotlines necessarily SHOULD have seeds planted that far beforehand, but i really don't feel like that's true of this show

http://www.scamper.net/journal/uploaded_images/Nate%20Tiara%20shrug-785812.jpg

Jesse was never a violent criminal until he was literally forced into company with Walt (to avoid possible jailtime). he was just a small/mid-level meth cooker/dealer. what he grew into he almost always did because Walt forced his hand.

yea he's a monster, but he at least doesn't revel in it and he knows who he is. he's really one of the few hardened criminals in the show that has a hard time reconciling what he is.

opinions like these are what I'm afraid will wreck the last season. Jesse was never a violent criminal until the choice to become one presented itself. Jesse isn't "the good guy," or "the better guy." he's just the guy whose excuses people buy. I mean you could say "Walt was never a narcissistic asshole until he was literally forced by cancer to become one" but you don't say that, because he's a human being with agency.

a small/mid-level meth cooker/dealer

=a scumbag

cap'n cook is my boy, BITCH

in all seriousness i think jesse is prob just more likable than everyone else, which is not really that high a hurdle

I dunno, Jesse at those meth rehab meetings have been some of the coldest things in the show.

^^^ I think that's kinda the point of the meetings - Jesse's role as the coolest & most relatable in a cast of assholes creates a need for the writers to remind people that this guy deals meth, which requires at least a more-than-you-wanna-stomach amount of sociopathy

he also has a tendency to turn ugly/mean when he feels threatened or cornered. it has always seemed like a relic of his teen years that never really went away and is more and more of nagl as a person ages because it shows a lack of maturity. mike, for instance, would never behave like that.

who exactly is suggesting he ISN'T a bad guy? like there's a diff between saying "he's a good guy that made a few mistakes" and "he's a bad guy who at least realizes he's bad and tries to take the non-murderous way out of things". having a black and white discussion on him is hella boring.

i mean when it comes down to it, Walter Jr is probably the only unsullied character (Hank isn't too bad other than beating Jesse which was IMO well-deserved, even if wrong for a cop to do).

Hank is pretty much a saint.

hank didn't seem like a very good cop or a very good person before enough bad stuff started happening to him for him to be a sympathetic character

I dunno how early was it in the show that walt had that booze breakdown next to the swimming pool? Hank handled that with a ton of compassion.

It's not that Jesse isn't bad, but that he knows he is -- see even breakdown at the last meth meeting, where he was all "judge me! I only came here to sell to you, i'm awful!".

Virtually every step of Jesse's descent scum has been at Walt's behest or a reaction to positions Walt has put him in, not to mention reactions after Walt murders people simply because Jesse cares about them. It does leave me with a dose of sympathy for him, especially in a show where there's not a lot of it called for.

the look on Walt's face/tears in his eyes when he let Jesse's g/f die was one of the few moments where he had a "what am I becoming?" moment in later seasons

Virtually every step of Jesse's descent scum has been at Walt's behest or a reaction to positions Walt has put him in, not to mention reactions after Walt murders people simply because Jesse cares about them. It does leave me with a dose of sympathy for him, especially in a show where there's not a lot of it called for.

Yeah, and the thing that brings me back to feeling sorry for Jesse is the way that Walt, his ex teacher, seems to still have that kind of emotional hold that parents and teachers can have over children, even after the children have grown up. Jesse even still calls him "Mr White" sometimes.

Walt Jr. is a whiny, entitled brat. He's 16 going on 12, complains when he doesn't get what he wants, mopes that mommy and daddy are splitting up, and all he does is make his mom cook him breakfast everyday.

Doesn't Jesse call him Mr. White exclusively?

in other words, Walt Jr is a 16 year old.

Doesn't Jesse call him Mr. White exclusively?

Now you mention it, yeah. He's been getting better at talking back to Walt though and I keep forgetting this whole show all takes place over about a year, so really he's only spent about 9 months unable to stand up to him.

I know he's called him "Walt" once or twice, but it read to me as a vain attempt to shift the interpersonal dynamic (like, Jesse trying on a different relationship to see how it felt) and he always lapsed back into calling him Mr. White.

It's especially telling when he holds the power of life and death over Walt (eg when discussing it with Gus) and still calls him "Mr. White".

the look on Walt's face/tears in his eyes when he let Jesse's g/f die was one of the few moments where he had a "what am I becoming?" moment in later seasons

later seasons like #2

Walt Jr. is a whiny, entitled brat. He's 16 going on 12, complains when he doesn't get what he wants, mopes that mommy and daddy are splitting up, and all he does is make his mom cook him breakfast everyday.

in other words, a fairly normal teenager

I disagree. Unlike the Sopranos, where someone would accidentally burn their house down or kill Ralphie Cifaretto over something really, really pointless, almost every development on this show could be traced to events in prior seasons.

― Neanderthal, Sunday, November 6, 2011 10:21 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark

what does this mean? if you don't see the reasons for stuff happening in the sopranos, you're not paying attention

and jesse, yeah, the interesting thing about him isnt any sort of "nobility," its the way he's aware of how he is rotting from the inside but can't really do anything to stop it

man the stuff that happened in Seasons 4 and 5 of Sopranos was a complete soap opera, that's about the time I checked out of the show

If a guy works in a top secret lab for a large salary, and he has a falling out with his colleagues and quits the company - CAN'T HE JUST GET A JOB AT ANOTHER TOP SECRET LAB FOR A HIGH SALARY INSTEAD OF HAVING TO TAKE A SIDE OB WASHING CARS?

no. there is only one TOP SECRET LAB on the planet.

unless there's another i don't know about.

The top secret underground lab field is a tough job market to penetrate.

I WAS ON A TEAM THAT WON THE NOBEL PRIZE - I'M SORRY YOU ARE ONLY QUALIFIED TO TEACH HIGH SCHOOL BIOLOGY.

walts vocation speaks to his psychology not the market for his skills

yeah, i figure it was more of a "fuck that world" reaction. He could have gotten a similar job but his pride/bitterness made him throw it away

thats the whole point iirc

i'd imagine it's not a huge market for super genius chemists - and once word is out you're a perpetual malcontent you're...
At the car wash
Talkin' about the car wash yeah!
Come on and sing it for me car wash.
Car wash yeah!

Wouldn't bitterness and pride compel him to start his own company and compete with Elliott Schwartz head on?

apparently not

there isn't really a formula for how different people react to things

weird to have to explain the different effects of bitterness and pride on a person to john freakin' lennon

Teaching is the noble path is one way to look at it