a thread about the civil unrest in egypt (& elsewhere in 'the region' if necessary)

I heard on the radio this morning that Russia and China vetoed a resolution at the UN condemning Syria.

Been trying to understand the positions of India, Brazil, and So. Africa, who abstained from the vote. Turkey has said they will impose further sanctions of their own (Syria is significant trade partner) and Erdogan was in So. Africa talking about it this past week. (He wasn't there just for that reason, but nevertheless...)

Also, Susan Rice walked out while Syrian ambassador was talking about U.S. colonial interest in Syria or something.

Aren't India, Brazil, and So. Africa simply interested in helping their growing economies grow more, and thus the chance to keep selling products to Syria outweighs for them the bloody dictatorial abuses (Plus there seems to be a certain desire to thumb their noses at anything the US and the UK and Europe wants)

Declaring women's rights vital for world peace, the Nobel Committee awarded its annual Peace Prize on Friday to three indomitable campaigners against war and oppression -- a Yemeni and two Liberians, including that country's president.

Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf, Africa's first freely elected female head of state, shared the $1.5 million with compatriot Leymah Gbowee, who led a "sex strike" among her efforts against Liberia's civil war, and Arab activist Tawakul Karman, who hailed the award as a victory for democracy in Yemen.

Now if only Yemen's prez would leave

has this been posted yet: http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/05/world/meast/syria-woman-alive/index.html?iref=allsearch

Wow.

The family held a funeral and buried the body, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch said.

The groups issued a statement saying they regret any inaccuracy in the misidentification of the body as that of Alhusni, and that both organizations regularly verify their information with multiple and independent sources.

Amnesty International said it had spoken directly to one of Alhusni's brothers to confirm the death, and Human Rights Watch later interviewed the woman's mother as well as a brother who washed the corpse prior to burial.

"It now appears that Zainab's family misidentified the body that was presented to them due to the extensive damage to the body," the groups said.

The current trouble in Egypt is a bit depressing, though I am drawing some comfort from it being the security forces laying into Copts rather than actual intercommunal violence. I am also seeing reports of Muslims joining in the protests to protect and assist Copts.

The military ruling council put off elections to 2013, and the Coptic Christians say the military council is not protecting them.

from Washington Post:
The violence began after men in civilian clothes attacked the Christian demonstrators with stones, according to witnesses. Soon, more Christians and Muslims raced downtown, where they clashed with security forces for hours.

Protesters torched police personnel carriers on a street along the Nile River, and armored personnel vehicles were dispatched late in the evening to Tahrir Square, where security forces used tear gas to disperse demonstrators.

...

Earlier Sunday, the ruling council said it would no longer try civilians in military courts, apparently bowing to pressure from activists.

In an apparent move to discourage a new sit-in in Tahrir Square, the cabinet announced a curfew in the area from 2 a.m. to 7 a.m.

Coptic Christians have been among the most vocal critics of the council. They complain that the military leadership has done too little to protect them in the wake of a string of attacks on churches this year. Coptic Christians, who make up about 10 percent of the country’s 80 million people, blame fundamentalist Muslims for the violence.

There was a Newsnight report about Homs in Syria the other night that was jaw-dropping, FYI. A town totally under seige, killings every day.. The heartbreaking thing about Homs is that people protest every day, even though no media is there, knowing they will be shot at every day, that people will die every day. They have been rigorously non-violent so far but that seems like it's changing, as more and more Syrian soldiers defect to Lebanon.. There are thousands now, and they're calling themselves the "Free Syrian Army"

Here it is, pretty sure you can view this outside the UK. Sue Lloyd-Roberts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9617507.stm

Syria is causing problems in Lebanon too:

A growing number of cross-border incursions by Syrian troops into Lebanese territory has aggravated political rivalries in Lebanon between those who oppose the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and those who support it.

Since the beginning of October, Syrian soldiers have penetrated Sunni-populated areas along Lebanon’s remote and poorly marked eastern border on a number of occasions, reportedly killing and abducting several people.

Unlike Syria’s stronger neighbors – Turkey, Iraq, Jordan, and Israel – Lebanon has long lived under Syria’s shadow and is more vulnerable to interference as the Assad regime pursues its crackdown on the Syrian opposition, elements of which have begun to arm themselves and fight back.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2011/1020/Syria-s-uprising-creeps-across-Lebanese-border

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/19/us-bahrain-usa-arms-idUSTRE79I7MI20111019

At stake is the proposed U.S. supply of 44 "Humvee" armored vehicles and several hundred TOW missiles along with associated equipment and support, worth an estimated $53 million.

You think going ahead with this sale to Bahrain might not look good? Jeez.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15365980

The BBC's UN correspondent Barbara Plett says there were no council divisions like the kind that blocked action on Syria, partly because of serious concerns about the deteriorating security situation in Yemen.

As opposed to the great security situation in Syria.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/26/us-france-syria-idUSTRE79P20320111026

Can we believe French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe that the Syrian regime will fall?

As long as Assad still has the military, and economic support from Iran, Russia and China, he can probably hang on. But I hope Juppe is right, based on whatever information he has.

i don't know whether he's right or not but it's interesting that he's saying so

Yes. The French feel emboldened by Libya maybe, but this is a different situation.

I am pleased that the Egyptians have released that Israeli American guy who was being held on farcical charges of espionage. Apparently some of the evidence against him was that he tipped heavily and spoke in a quiet voice to his girlfriend.

he was also seen consulting a Hebrew-Arabic dictionary in public, though I'm not sure that was taken as evidence that he was a spy or not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/arabian-sights-festival-sees-more-egyptian-arab-spring-films/2011/10/27/gIQA9yq2MM_story.html?wprss=rss_local

For those in the W. DC area (and maybe the films are showing elsewhere too)

I did not make it to any of the Arabians sights movies over the weekend and some of the upcoming showings are all sold out.

Meanwhile

With an eye on the threat of a belligerent Iran, the administration is also seeking to expand military ties with the six nations in the Gulf Cooperation Council — Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Oman.

Great. The US wants to associate with the the Gulf Cooperation Council, best known for going into Bahrain and crushing the protests there.

x-post-- the French may feel the Syrian government is going to collapse but this Washington Post article tells an opposite story(although the reporter was on a supervised and watched visit)-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/syrias-government-is-confident-but-the-country-is-polarized/2011/10/28/gIQAxgdbQM_story.html

But during a rare, authorized visit to Syria by a Western journalist, conducted under close government supervision, it became clear that not only do Assad and his allies appear to be in no imminent danger of falling but that they also feel no pressure to offer concessions to those who have been taking to the streets for months to call for radical change.

Syria agrees to Arab League peace plan (but...)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/arab-league-announces-peace-plan-for-syria/2011/11/02/gIQAKBm6fM_story.html?hpid=z3

Emergency Arab League meeting tomorrow about Syria's non-compliance with the agreement and, presumably, the increasing slaughter.

I'm just shocked that Syria did not abide by the plan!!! While some say its obvious Syria should be kicked out of the Arab League, this BBC writer thinks the League will somehow retain power over Syria if it keeps Syria. Elsewhere I read that folks want the League to have Syrian dissidents (from outside the country) represent Syria and not the Syrian government

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15703311

Arab League talking tough re Syria now--will it help or make a difference?

As usual everything is messy--Egyptian military trying to preserve their power; Yemen still waiting for Prez to leave while the poor get stuck in the middle of the government, extremists and incoming drones; and Syria possibly heading into civil war. The Bahrain situation is no better than it was either.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/world/middleeast/aliaa-magda-elmahdy-egypts-nude-blogger-stirs-partisan-waters.html

nude blogger stirs

uh oh

Heavy clashes were reported as troops and tanks were sent to vanquish rebels, and Russia indicated it would oppose any effort to have President Bashar al-Assad step down.

NY Times

Meanwhile, someone said on the Democracy Now radio show that Assad's military has 300,000 active troops with tanks etc., while the rebels have at the most 30,000 to 40,000 spread throughout the country

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/02/world/europe/soldier-says-atrocities-made-him-a-syrian-defector.html?_r=2&hpw

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/brutality-in-syria-by-davidoatkins.html

The tradition of pacifism and anti-imperialism on the Left would indicate that Syrian problems are Syrian, and that nothing should be done beyond sending sternly worded letters and maybe a few targeted sanctions. The tradition of intervention on behalf of the weak and defenseless on the Left would indicate that the world has a moral obligation something to step in.

But what would stepping in look like? Would it do more harm than good? What would be the blowback? It's hard to say here that Assad is a dictator backed by the West, as has so often been the case elsewhere. In this case, it's the Russians who have strategic resource interests in Syria and have been trying to keep Assad in power. But obviously, having America act as the world's policeman hasn't worked out so well for the last 50 years or so.

These are not easy questions; no one should pretend that they are, or that anyone has all the answers. But it's hard to obsess over minor issues in the tax code or reproductive access domestically, while shrugging in helpless resignation over what's happening in Syria right now.

http://www.juancole.com/2012/01/egyptian-crowds-in-tahrir-insist-the-revolution-will-continue.html

news of urban shelling in Syria:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16883911

It's crystal clear that Assad doesn't give a shit. He's murdering his own people as a "fuck you" to the world. Sickening.

finally on the NYT homepage. Deaths reportedly up to 260.

And Russia and China do not care. Thanks a lot. So the US is gonna try the below, while I heard on the radio that Sarkozy is gonna try to talk to Putin.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-pulls-diplomats-out-of-syria-as-violence-intensifies/2012/02/06/gIQAN1CxtQ_story.html?hpid=z1

sheesh have the Russians and Chinese ever met a brutal dictatorial regime they didn't like

It's not all that different than the black 'copters crowd in the US; they feel that allowing ingerence by the UN lessens national sovereignty and that it's not up to the UN to effect regime change in countries that aren't a security threat to their neighbors.

sheesh have the Russians and Chinese ever met a brutal dictatorial regime they didn't like

You're from where, sorry?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russian-foreign-minister-visits-syria-as-shelling-continues/2012/02/07/gIQAx438vQ_story.html?hpid=z3

You're from where, sorry?

the US has supported plenty of execrable regimes and unjustly meddled in the affairs of other countries but China and Russia are like next level when it comes to looking the other way/propping up monsters

US pays lip service to human rights, Russia and China don't even bother

There must be a LDR joke in there...

US pays lip service to human rights, Russia and China don't even bother

When there's $billions in trade and investments at stake, I think it's called "the customer is always right".

i think it's more like "you have your hemisphere, fuck off"

"you have your hemisphere, fuck off"

uh South America yo

right that's what i mean

anyway, interesting claim from a leftist/goldbug type site:

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/02/independent-report-shows-that-syrian-government-violence-has-been-exaggerated.html