I'm always cheerleading for how consistently good-to-great American cinematography was in the '70s. Gordon Willis, top tier.
― clemenza, Monday, 3 October 2011 11:34 (twelve years ago) link
yeah. i am not great with cinematographers but woody did pretty well - interiors is memorably beguiling, stardust memories really well done etc.
anyway i just rescreened this & was stunned; i wonder where i was at when i first saw it, as little of my idea of what it was like related to its emotional punch. as a portrait of the dynamics of their relationship it's incredible, catching how both their idiosyncrasies are at first endearing & attractive & vital, & then eventually the fuel for their downfall.
― honest weights, square dealings (schlump), Monday, 3 October 2011 11:41 (twelve years ago) link
For me, Annie Hall holds up much better than Manhattan, even though the thing that most bothers me about Manhattan--anti-pretension masking wild pretensions--is just starting to creep in. (I realize Manhattan is a sacred film for many people, so I don't really want to start knocking it.)
― clemenza, Monday, 3 October 2011 11:45 (twelve years ago) link
i kind of can't remember manhattan that well at this moment, so would probably benefit from catching that again, also (i had a couple of years of telling everyone that stardust was his best movie, i guess pointedly on account of being some kind of connoisseurish b&w alternative to manhattan, though a rewatch convinced me otherwise - though i am very fond of it, particularly its precision meta-referential take on his career, & sequences of it in particular, it doesn't have the rhythm of his best, & ends a couple of times before ending, etc). what was interesting in annie hall, kinda prefiguring love & death, in which intellectual references are quoted for their absurd phonic qualities & for a humorous shift in register, was that to a more restrained degree he's still using those references kind of self-deprecatingly & to impugn others, always as a distancing, complicating thing in communication or relationships. i'm not sure how pretentious manhattan is; the parts that stick with me are those examples of wonderfully human and common reflexive bullshit - don't fall in love with me, i'm broken etc, which, like with annie hall, kinda resonate deeply whether you are woody or not. eesh anyway this slayed me.
― honest weights, square dealings (schlump), Monday, 3 October 2011 12:42 (twelve years ago) link
also, just as an aside, woody looks so great in this film, outfits & everything - idk if elmo's reading this thread but there were some plaid shirt/herringbone jacket combos that i thought he'd be into
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lshlhnt4SG1qg7mglo1_500.png
― honest weights, square dealings (schlump), Monday, 3 October 2011 12:47 (twelve years ago) link
Ralph Lauren, ya know
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Monday, 3 October 2011 19:43 (twelve years ago) link
I can't defend Manhattan as anything other than an occasionally amusing film but I've made my peace with the thing.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2011 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
I love Manhattan. You guys are loons.
― polyphonic, Monday, 3 October 2011 19:47 (twelve years ago) link
Annie Hall is better but polyphonic otm
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 3 October 2011 19:53 (twelve years ago) link
i love manhattan too but i haven't seen since i was a teenager and i'm reluctant to revisit it pretty much the same reasons i'm scared to revisit catcher in the rye. still it's showing in town soon on the big screen so i'll definitely check it out (if only for the opening monologue and the gershwin). if i can tolerate/borderline enjoy vicky cristina barcelona and pine for the relative quality of 90s woody allen i'm pretty sure manhattan will deliver just fine. do wish he'd make another movie w/ diane keaton. manhattan murder mystery really should be the template - small cast, alda-huston-keaton-allen, maybe switch up the other two parties (maybe throw tony roberts and dianne wiest in the mix) but a doddering nick and norah type series w/ allen and keaton is something i could actually imagine being entertained by, and there aren't alot of scenarios for 'future woody allen movies' i can say that about.
― balls, Monday, 3 October 2011 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
I could've seen Midnight in Paris for free last night and opted to pay to see 50/50 instead...
anyway my POV on Manhattan changed considerably from teendom to adulthood. I loved it 18 but I interpreted it completely differently than I do now
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 3 October 2011 19:58 (twelve years ago) link
― polyphonic, Monday, October 3, 2011 3:47 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark
― Juggy Brottleteen (ENBB), Monday, 3 October 2011 19:59 (twelve years ago) link
Manhattan's philosophy is suspect, but that's not of paramount importance, is it?
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Monday, 3 October 2011 20:11 (twelve years ago) link
anyway, I wish for a sock o' manure on a daily basis
I'm not sure what the overall "philosophy" of the film is.
I prefer to view Woody as the villain of the film, fwiw
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 3 October 2011 20:22 (twelve years ago) link
manhattan still holds up for me, maybe even better than when i was 18. whatever happened to marshall brickman anyway
― The sham nation of Israel should be destroyed. (Princess TamTam), Monday, 3 October 2011 20:45 (twelve years ago) link
I've discussed this before: the ping-pong dialogue between Woody and Michael Murphy in the classroom condenses everything that's wrong about Allen in this period (characters defining themselves and others through psychoanalytic cliches, actors not given anything to do but embody those cliches). And I don't care for the clumsy way in which the movie tries to have it both ways: romanticism and sourness.
But I can still watch it and laugh.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2011 21:29 (twelve years ago) link
Pretty much the same: looks fantastic, there's stuff that makes me laugh, and I can still appreciate why it was such a big deal at the time. But there are things that make me cringe, and that scene in the classroom is one of the worst offenders.
― clemenza, Monday, 3 October 2011 21:42 (twelve years ago) link
re: that scene, it's not particularly realistic dialogue but the one liners are all funny ("I have to model myself after someone!" lol)
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 3 October 2011 21:43 (twelve years ago) link
The film becomes nostalgia in the act of its unfolding, so I've never considered it realistic.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2011 21:44 (twelve years ago) link
Some of the throwaway stuff makes me laugh: Woody's reaction to Wallace Shawn, when he puts his hand in the water while rowboating, the brown water, etc.
― clemenza, Monday, 3 October 2011 21:47 (twelve years ago) link
there is a guy in my preschool co-op who, god help me, reminds me of Wallace Shawn every time I see him. He's like 2 ft taller than Shawn but he talks EXACTLY like him, the lisp, the diction everything. it's unnerving.
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 3 October 2011 21:48 (twelve years ago) link
I like all the bits satirizing liberal fatuity.
Meryl Streep -- the role and the performance -- are unbearable though.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2011 21:49 (twelve years ago) link
she gets what 5 minutes of screen time? I think she only has two scenes iirc
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 3 October 2011 21:50 (twelve years ago) link
She makes sure we understand that her hair is doing all the work.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2011 21:51 (twelve years ago) link
I'm wondering where the film stands in relation to Streep's marriage to Cazale--my guess is that she was making it either just before or just after he died.
― clemenza, Monday, 3 October 2011 21:54 (twelve years ago) link
this is the Annie Hall thread btw
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Monday, 3 October 2011 21:58 (twelve years ago) link
Can we at least talk about how awful Barack Obama is?
― clemenza, Monday, 3 October 2011 22:03 (twelve years ago) link
We're reaffirming its goodness.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2011 22:03 (twelve years ago) link
lol clemenza
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 3 October 2011 22:06 (twelve years ago) link
i love that scene in the classroom, don't see what's wrong with Meryl Streep either but then i'm in love with Manhattan so any criticism is too much!
Streep's take by the way is interesting:"I don't think Woody Allen even remembers me. I went to see Manhattanand I felt like I wasn't even in it. I was pleased with the film because Ilooked pretty in it and I thought it was entertaining. But I only worked onthe film for three days and I didn't get to know Woody. Who gets to knowWoody? He's very much of a womanizer; very self-involved. On a certain level,the film offends me because it's about all these people whose sole concernis discussing their emotional states or their neuroses. It's sad becauseWoody has the potential to be America's Chekhov. But instead, he's stillcaught up in the jet-set crowd type of life, trivializing his talent."
― piscesx, Monday, 3 October 2011 22:16 (twelve years ago) link
I'll remind Ms. Streep that Allen's stab at Chekhov in September was exactly that -- into his neck.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2011 22:17 (twelve years ago) link
what year is that Streep quote from?
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 3 October 2011 22:17 (twelve years ago) link
some time in the late 90s maybe? http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/kammer/gossip-is-the-new-pornography/i first read it on IMDB way back.
― piscesx, Monday, 3 October 2011 22:22 (twelve years ago) link
― Juggy Brottleteen (ENBB), Monday, October 3, 2011 3:59 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark
― horseshoe, Monday, 3 October 2011 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
philosophy schmilosophy
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llwy6n7fOX1qbyzufo1_500.gif
― balls, Monday, 3 October 2011 23:40 (twelve years ago) link
What an intense young Method actress.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2011 23:44 (twelve years ago) link
what a fucking babe
― balls, Monday, 3 October 2011 23:44 (twelve years ago) link
weirdo
― remy bean, Monday, 3 October 2011 23:50 (twelve years ago) link
And I don't care for the clumsy way in which the movie tries to have it both ways: romanticism and sourness.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, October 3, 2011 5:29 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark
thats why i dig it! real life tries to have it both ways too, man
the only thing i'll say against manhattan is a lot of the supporting characters are too wooden, too caricatured, but fuck me its a gorgeous movie... clemenza otm about 70s cinematography
― The sham nation of Israel should be destroyed. (Princess TamTam), Monday, 3 October 2011 23:50 (twelve years ago) link
Eh. The cinematography freezes the characters' crises like pins through a butterfly.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2011 23:52 (twelve years ago) link
Streep can shut up now that she mostly plays cartoon bitches (w/ the odd cartoon chef tossed in for flavor).
Annie Hall is intimate, Manhattan tries to have the characters stand in for a class. And they're around, I've seen them, but they don't talk to me.
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Monday, 3 October 2011 23:54 (twelve years ago) link
there are few films i dread like that thatcher biopic looming out there
― balls, Monday, 3 October 2011 23:55 (twelve years ago) link
also, what is so fascinating about a bunch of pituitary cases trying to stuff a ball through a hoop?
― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Monday, 3 October 2011 23:55 (twelve years ago) link
ha are there woody allen movies where the characters don't stand in for a class? manhattan's at least slightly aware of it.
― balls, Monday, 3 October 2011 23:56 (twelve years ago) link
Manhattan is totally mediocre at best except for the first 5 minutes when it doesn't have people in it.
I saw Annie Hall recently and thought it very good, often: it seemed like the best of Woody Allen, like the best feature film version you were ever going to get of the thing that Woody Allen does or did on feature film.
― the pinefox, Monday, 3 October 2011 23:59 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPh59jOoiEs
― The sham nation of Israel should be destroyed. (Princess TamTam), Monday, 3 October 2011 23:59 (twelve years ago) link
you always hurt my feelings pinefox
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 00:00 (twelve years ago) link
i think annie hall is prob better, but i mean i don't even like to think like that
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 4 October 2011 00:01 (twelve years ago) link