what the fuck am i getting myself into with this grad school stuff

I dunno, I think a guy like that doesn't need the money; he made enough of it so quickly that I'm sure he's got some (a bunch) squirreled away. I know people who know him directly (& are quoted in that article) & they've never indicated that he wasted the money.

google suggests he's into competitive fly fishing now? so I mean on some level he does seem to just enjoy fishing. (that doesn't rule out what you said)

I like that the grad school thread has devolved into finance and fishing

was thinking recently that people "like us" don't just "go fishing" anymore & so this is nice to think about

n.b. I've only gone fishing a few times so I'm part of the problem

it's fairly likely that I will live my whole life without ever going fishing

haven't ever done the deep-sea leisure fishing, but there's plans afoot for this year sometime

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/education/22grad.html

“The decline in domestic students is very bad news for the nation’s economic future,” Dr. Stewart said. “Higher education and, increasingly, graduate education are what drives prosperity, and if we get to the point where only people with significant bank accounts can afford graduate education, the country is doomed.”

I know it's her job to say this, but eh, 'it's complicated'. I mean that last part is true and the country obviously is doomed, but how much do MBA/MPA programs 'drive prosperity' vs. 'parcel out prosperity'?

I meant when the economy was working, outside of top programs they mostly just parcel out debt for a weak signal on your resume

http://www.cgsnet.org/portals/0/pdf/R_ED2010.pdf

breakdown

private for-profit grad level 'certificates' grew 59.7% over a year
private for-profit...phds?? grew 15.8%

# of times 'job' or 'employment' appears in the 103 page report - zero

otoh the GRE board is paying for this, so

68,000 doctorates awarded each year by U.S. colleges and universities - insane.

not insane: most Ph.D.s go to work in industry, happily. we're talking outside the humanities of course (though I wish that too would change), but esp. in applied fields there are lots of doctorates needed to do the kinds of innovative research that differentiate us from the rest of the world (even Europe).

I'm on my phone now so you'll have to check for me, but I recall math/engineering being a small % of that, iirc doctoral fields that actually fell in new enrollment this year. I don't our economy is anywhere near a surplus of biomedical engineering phds, but we're not pumping out 68,000 of them.

I don't have time to look up the data for a few weeks, I don't think.

haha I meant it's in that PDF I linked. I will look later.

okay it's not as bad as I thought

arts humanities - 9.5
biological/ag sciences - 14.3
business - 2.8
education 13.3
engineering 13.2
health sciences 14.5
math / comp sci - 5.3
phys/earth sciences - 9.1
public admin - 1.0
soc / behav sciences - 13.6
other - 3.4

(%s)

tho I wonder how much private sector work that goes to hard science (etc.) phds could be just as competently done by someone w/ a masters? that's something that's hard to measure.

hard to measure, but a masters only involves more courses plus possibly a thesis that recapitulates what is already known. whereas a Ph.D. involves new, original research that demonstrates creativity, focus & fortitude. The best jobs need those skills & if you have a Ph.D., you've shown you have them.

Taking the GRE next Wednesday. Not really ready(for the math) though took me forever just to re-learn it, which I'm proud of managing to do. The new 60 day rule means that in the event of a score I don't like I can't resit till late November, which will bomb the early Dec deadlines and scrape the mid-Dec ones. But reluctant to scrap this test for the sake of more practice time and make it a one-shot deal. Hoping schools are lenient about minor delays in second test scores this year, given the new test and associated time lags.

I just did my GRE on Monday. I thought it was a walk in the park tho I have thought every standardized test I ever took was a walk in the park. You should still get an estimate of your score on the old (800 pt) rating system right when you finish the test, so if it's good or excellent on that scale I guess it'll probably be good or excellent on the new one.

I'm hoping the verbal will be a walk in the park. The math will absolutely not be a walk in the park for me, old or new score. Just terrible at math, hence anticipating needing the second test and the extra practice time.

This table over at ETS may encourage you; obviously it uses the old scale but that is what yr estimated scores will use when you finish the test

http://www.ets.org/s/gre/pdf/gre_guide_extended_table4.pdf

that way you can compare yourself to ppl who are more in your peer group (dev psych?) than I am (lolcomputerscience)

Hey, thanks! I thought I'd reached every corner of the ETS website, but hadn't reached that one. Going to take the PowerPrep practice test this morning, will be interesting (worrying) to see what that turns up... I don't need a great math score as long as I do really well on the verbal.

Warning, long rant, sorry. Here's the deal: did the PowerPrep timed test today. It only gives you a range for your score, as they're still calibrating the new scoring system (and it doesn't score the analytical section).

Verbal: 680-780 range
Quantitative: 480-580 range. Argh. A 580 would be ok I guess, I'm not expecting a great math score, just need a a non- red flag. A 480 would be that flag. I know I can get my score up just with practice - my main (though not only) problem was time - had to guess about a quarter of the questions in the last 30 secs.

Going for very competitive schools for funding reasons - should have very good letters of rec, have 4.0 GPA, but...

I can sit the test on Wednesday, and resit if necessary - but now that you can only sit the damn thing every 60 days, the next opportunity to resit will be 28 Nov and that only just squeaks in my scores for Dec 15 deadlines, and misses one earlier deadline. But I guess schools are being lenient this year if you upload your not-yet-offically-confirmed scores into your actual application?

- skip the test on Wed, forfeit the fee (too late to cancel), reschedule for mid-Nov. Feels like copping out but probably the more sensible option.

Gah.

or skip the test on Wed, I should have said.

not sure but there often is a difference between when schools will stop accepting apps and when they will stop accepting GRE scores

First of all, don't skip the test Wednesday, if you do fine or great, everything will be OK!

I was going to suggest that guessing wildly at the end could backfire but it looks like the computer-based test may not penalize guesses vs. blanks like paper-based tests do. So I guess there's no need to strategize with that after all.

Oh wait I see why you might want to skip the test now. With the 60-day window thing.

Oh wait I see why you might want to skip the test now. With the 60-day window thing.

double post lols.

Anyway, yeah, if you are concerned about getting scores in under deadlines, write to the program administrators and ask what is up/if your application can still be considered if a score report is sent in six days late. They may say "tough cookie" but they may not.

And yeah your goal is to avoid a red flag; good grades, good grades in your major/prospective field, and good recs are the really really important parts of your app.

dayo and silby - a friend of a friend who is doing a proper GRE course says they're being particularly lenient this year re getting the scores by the app deadline. But I believe at least one school on my list will not be lenient. I should call around tomorrow morning, but I know it'll take forever to raise an answer and I should be practicing!

Silby, re red flag, another factor: with two scores and a v late November test, the risk is that schools start evaluating your app with your first score (and perhaps reject it if the score is 480 quant...) before they see that you resat the test - you'd have to phone them, hassle them to update the score with your new informal score, remind them a new score is on the way, etc.

Best outcome so far: crisis purchase of much clothing one hour after the timed test.

Leaning to skipping Wed but will decide tomorrow morning.

I could post screeds about the actual experience of being confronted with the math and how it freezes your brain and how hilarious it is to review the qs afterwards and see that some of them were child's play.

yeah really the emphasis seemed to be less on particular math knowledge and more on…being able to figure out which two numbers the weird multi-step questions want you to multiply together.

i.e. the sort of standardized test bullshit you can totally practice. Skipping the test actually seeming like a better move here, if you are pretty convinced you'd want to retake anyway…

Yeah, I think so too. I mean, how much is my score going to go up with one day more prep? Not much, and they'll still report it as a range, which means I'll have to assume it's at the lower end of that range if I'm not to avoid that red flag. So I think I'll have to resit regardless.

Plus that is 4 hours of your life you won't have to spend taking a fucking standardized test!

Ideally the last one of your life.

Amen to that.

I mean, I'm nearly 40 for god's sake! Which is another reason not to have any red flags - although it will be a plus in terms of life experience, you'd better not look like you can't learn new tricks.

I'm just hoping to not look underqualified. Taking the CS subject test next month, hoping to do an excellent job and fend off concerns about my nonstandard ugrad background.

I bet they are pretty flexible about that for comp sci, though - won't they want people who can bring a 'domain-driven' element to it? What was your undergrad major (if you don't mind me prying - ignore if you do)

I actually did mostly concentrate in computer science in college but I went to a hippie school (no majors/grades, blah blah) and so most of my comp sci classes aren't graded, and I'm missing a few "standard" things that a normal ugrad major would've done. On the other hand, I did some cool things that most normal ugrad majors didn't do (taught a class as my senior thesis project, took philosophy of mind and humanities classes w/ interdisciplinary relevance, etc etc) which I'm hoping is…interesting I guess? I'm aiming to go into theoretical comp sci, which is pretty math-heavy, so I'm hoping they ignore the C i got on an off-campus number theory class my second year.

also realized that if I do become a theoretical computer scientist, I will not be a proper scientist, a proper engineer, or a proper mathematician. but that's ok, it's my ~dream~

You will be a proper new interdisciplinary/brave new world phenom!

haha no the "proper" part is just what the field is like, it is not really science. I have friends who study neuroscience, they are actual scientists; they are too polite to make fun of me for studying a fake science.

data science is science imo!

haha see theoretical computer science doesn't even involve data a lot of the time, at least not experimental data (though it can be useful). It is lots of mathy theorem-proving and imaginary abstract machines. It's very cool, but it has even less to do with the practice of science than systems or AI research does.

at least it's less fake of a science than, like, economics (tho behavioral economics is a field that has generated cool results, like ultimatum game research) (modulo subject selection biases)

man I want this bad, hope I turn out to be good at it

Rescheduled for mid-Nov, should still make most deadlines, huge relief.

Woo!