like the UC system has to reject pretty good people...or send them to Davis!
The UC system and the CA State system have doubled or tripled tuition and fees in the past decade! If I were going to grad school now, there's no way that i'd be able to pay even part-time tuition with wages from a part-time job (which is what i did, except for my thesis semester)
― sarahel, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:58 (thirteen years ago) link
I really never hear good things about California's governance, economy, zoning laws, or flammability at this point.
― Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:00 (thirteen years ago) link
I don't know anyone who went to or considered going to a high-dollar art school (grad or undergrad) who thought of it as a wise investment monetarily. They either considered the debt and didn't care, had family money enough to not give a shit, or were too starry-eyed to consider the implications - but none of them thought it was a guarantee of income afterward.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, September 2, 2011 12:47 PM (4 minutes ago
I went to a high-dollar art school (albeit writing for screen/ tv) and thought - based on the statistics quoted by the program that it would be a wise investment. I considered the debt, did care, was reassured by the financial advisers at the school, and went for it. Never recouped, not even close.
― remy bean, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:01 (thirteen years ago) link
http://hanlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Art
― did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:03 (thirteen years ago) link
lol
― markers, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:05 (thirteen years ago) link
The thing is, my writing career probably would have been successful if I'd had 3-5 years after graduation to focus on it intently, w/o distraction and as a full-time profession. Some of the people in my graduating class did: and they were successful or are becoming very wealthy/respected/acknowledged now. But I was poor going in, poorer coming out, and unable to devote myself sufficiently to the pursuit for which I'd gone to school . So while the employment statistics (quoted as like 50% success rate, IIRC) I was told upon entry be accurate, and an okay gamble, the odds of me succeeding were always a lot, lot lower.
― remy bean, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:08 (thirteen years ago) link
"I went to a high-dollar art school (albeit writing for screen/ tv)"
brothers in foolishness arms.
― strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:09 (thirteen years ago) link
Mike Schmidt had no use for art schoolhttp://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt316/soydevon/101-mike-schmidt-action-front.jpg
― did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:11 (thirteen years ago) link
xp - yeah, my next door neighbor freshman year did that (the intent focus w/out distraction), i did not. She is now a celebrated playwright. I work in accounting.
― sarahel, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:11 (thirteen years ago) link
The thing is, my writing career probably would have been successful if I'd had 3-5 years after graduation to focus on it intently, w/o distraction and as a full-time profession.
couldn't you have found a really cheap place to live though--like in a weird part of the country, lived there, worked on your craft for a few years? just wondering/thinking out loud.
― Mr. Que, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:13 (thirteen years ago) link
like you know
http://www.rentals.com/Kansas/Wichita/
― Mr. Que, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:15 (thirteen years ago) link
is that a recent trend, or one making a resurgence -- "community discussions" about establishing artist/writer colonies in cheap areas of the US? 10 years ago everyone was talking about Detroit. Now I think it's South Dakota.
― sarahel, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:20 (thirteen years ago) link
I think they just call it the ghetto - oh wrong thread
― did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:21 (thirteen years ago) link
I did learn a lot when I was there – I got to make films, visit sets, talk to people who'd worked inside the industry, spend time with like-minded writers, chat it up in targeted groups and be mentored by "industry insders" while receiving incredibly profound and honest feedback. I paid a lot for 'access' and was provided it unstintingly. Maybe if I were more of a, err, go-getter, I could have arranged that access on my own and written and honed my craft for 4 years. But, honestly, I don't have anything negative to say about the quality of my education - it was good, and I don't regret it. I do regret not understanding the necessity of stockpiling $$$ or finding a crap job to let me work full-time on the writing after I left. I dislike that there wasn't a little caveat underneath the "50% of graduates work in the field of TV/film in ten years" that said "and they are often working in it when they enter/have family connections/come from wealthy backgrounds that allow them a single-minded pursuit of their craft" but really that is not too realistic to expect.
― remy bean, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:22 (thirteen years ago) link
live in Mom's cellar
― did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:23 (thirteen years ago) link
There was a short documentary (sponsored by a skate brand?) recently about Detroit as artist's colony, so I think that's still often talked about.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:23 (thirteen years ago) link
the whoel city of detroit? thats too much art
― did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:24 (thirteen years ago) link
LG could you plz stop dropping dubious lols into this thread with every other post?
― Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:25 (thirteen years ago) link
my heart just jumped into my throat
― did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:26 (thirteen years ago) link
LG could you plz stop dropping dubious lols into this every thread with every other post?
― Halal Spaceboy (WmC), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:27 (thirteen years ago) link
there is nothing dubious about anything I do
― did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:28 (thirteen years ago) link
― sarahel, Friday, September 2, 2011 4:11 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark
heh there's a cousin in my family who inherited a nice chunk of change, spent several years devoting himself to writing, and is now an optometrist
― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:28 (thirteen years ago) link
holy crap, sarahel, was your next door neighbor freshman year sarah ruehl????
― horseshoe, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link
ruhl
ruhl roh
― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:31 (thirteen years ago) link
lol @ 50% engineer economy; welcome to China :(― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 13:24 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 13:24 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Leaving non-vocation college education aside, which is definitely valuable and enriching. There is an oversupply of MBAs and JDs and an undersupply of Engineers in the US. If you pick an oversubscribed field you have to accept the risk that you won't get to practice what you train for.
As a side note I was very interested to hear recently that Ernst and Young (big four Accountancy firm) was hiring straight from A-Level in the UK and guaranteeing that salaries would match or exceed those of incoming graduates after 3 years. An apprenticeship by other means.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:31 (thirteen years ago) link
writing's so good that he has to optometrize you so you fully appreciate it
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link
accounting is the ultimate "hey the world will always need ___________" job
― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link
I live in a building that is slowly becoming an artists colony ie everyone young is now on unemployment
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link
I thought that was undertaker-ing. xp
― Halal Spaceboy (WmC), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link
you don't have to go to school to become an undertaker
― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:35 (thirteen years ago) link
oh wait you do
http://www.ehow.com/how_8117_become-mortician.html
― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link
You thought morticians didn't have to be trained/licensed?!
― Halal Spaceboy (WmC), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:38 (thirteen years ago) link
you do! unless you can APPRENTICE.
i actually turned down a chance to become an apprentice undertaker a few years back.
― strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:38 (thirteen years ago) link
my 12th grade guidance counselor's degree was in mortuary sciences, which explains his cold handshake.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:39 (thirteen years ago) link
btw mortuary biz doing as shitty as everything else these days according to my uncle.
― strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:39 (thirteen years ago) link
xp but how would you explain his death erection?
― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:39 (thirteen years ago) link
― Halal Spaceboy (WmC), Friday, September 2, 2011 4:38 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
seems pretty easy - shovel the corpse into a furnace, collect $200
― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:40 (thirteen years ago) link
we can fix this by raising the Social Security age.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:40 (thirteen years ago) link
not gonna lie though -- going by dude's house, mortuary game is tight during times of plenty when people can afford those amenties like a coffin and a plot.
― strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:42 (thirteen years ago) link
maybe he keeps all his money in the vault... the cold vault.
― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:43 (thirteen years ago) link
pry the money from his cold dead hands
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:43 (thirteen years ago) link
lastly: in my world of tenured professors no one knows or cares where any one went to undergrad, & I've sat on several hiring committees in recent years.
well being a lot closer to admissions than to tenure i feel like 'people' care at least a little. but really, and even if 'tenured professor' is approaching the type of rarified position currently occupied by like head of WME, it was more an attempt to test a basic assumption i have against some easily accessible real world data. and as another anecdote my dad was a senior executive on wall street and weve talked abt this a little: at some point it doesnt matter if you went to princeton or u nebraska, what matters is the work youve done for the firm. if they were considering promoting someone to vp they wouldnt consider undergrad at all. but a hell of lot more candidates for vp went to princeton than u nebraskai guess my point is: i dont think going to u michigan or uva or any other well regarded state school makes it impossible to work on wall street or at a top law firm or management consulting firm or think tank or entertainment conglomerate or talent agency or government agency but i think it makes it harder? and maybe its a good trade to simply pay less tuition and have to shine a little brighter and work a little harder than a harvard alumni would? but i think the problem is the perception that things are made easier and that makes it harder to make the best choice as a 17 yo? like:
My argument is that aside from those dreamy choices, a public degree can be/generally is (unless drugs/laziness/etc) just as valuable as a private degree. To the extent that it's not, it's because "top" hs prospects choose private schools w/ big debt b/c they think those degrees signal ~success~. & then they get articles like the one atop this thread written about them.
but to what extent are smart, ambitious hs students to blame for the sort of signaling thats going on here? this is a p hardnosed calculation for someone to be making at this point in their lives, yknow?
― Lamp, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:45 (thirteen years ago) link
there is also the perception that "you only do this once, so make it count" wrt going to college, somehow makes the debt 'worth it'
― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:47 (thirteen years ago) link
i think i do miss not being able to hang around old-money types by not going to a private school. that's a magical opportunity lost to me, like having a unicorn for a roommate, so maybe harry potter is to blame for this aura around private school?
― Philip Nunez, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:54 (thirteen years ago) link
horseshoe: yes, that's who it was.
― sarahel, Friday, 2 September 2011 22:27 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-innovations/president-obama-there-is-no-engineer-shortage/2011/09/01/gIQADpmpuJ_story.html
this is a big problem
And, sadly, our top engineering graduates don’t always become engineers. They move into finance or management consulting — both of which pay far higher salaries than engineering. I have seen the dilemma that my engineering students at at Duke University have faced. Do they take a job in civil engineering that pays $70,000, or join big Wall Street financial firm and make $120,000? With the hefty student loans that hang over their heads, most have made the financially sensible decision. In some years, half of our graduates have ended up taking jobs outside of engineering. Instead of developing new types of medical devices, renewable energy sources and ways to sustain the environment, my most brilliant students are designing new ways to help our investment banks engineer the financial system.
― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 22:30 (thirteen years ago) link
"Run the World (Goldman Sachs)"
― J0rdan S., Friday, 2 September 2011 22:33 (thirteen years ago) link
my college was basically a feeder school for goldman sachs
― remy bean, Friday, 2 September 2011 22:34 (thirteen years ago) link
I think every college is a feeder school for goldman sachs
― dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 22:35 (thirteen years ago) link