another maniacal Armond White review, this time "Fahrenheit 9/11"

And it'd be BETTER!

xp: c'mon, i'm not even a contender! I only remember threads where ppl give me shit.

I saw Dogville at the 19th & B'way Loews on Good Friday. Cinematic Gethsemane.

I can't ignore J. Hoberman anymore if I wanted to. His columns are now a fixture in the City Pages.

xp: c'mon, i'm not even a contender! I only remember threads where ppl give me shit.

That's constitutes an amount of text that rivals In Search of Lost Time.

I LET YOU HAVE THAT ONE!

jesus 'dogville' was bad: probably a more boneheaded non-critique of capitalism than 'there will be blood'.

x=post I know.

those movies aren't about capitalism. also not misanthropic. or anti-american. or whatever. also they both have very funny endings (although dogville's makes more sense).

also i can only imagine the depth of loathing armond white feels for dogville. i don't remember if he reviewed it.

i have no idea what dogville's appeal is if it isn't to a kneejerk euro 'god aren't people cruel' misanthropy. 'twbbb' is at least a decent looking bit of film (as opposed to rehashing brecht) but equally naive politics-wise.

xp: He did and maybe you can't imagine!

Also tipsy, we have to discuss the "ugly liberal anger" dinner scene in Huckabees. I found it exhilarating.

bingo: "one of the most fatuous movies ever made."

xp: yeah i love that scene.

kneejerk euro 'god aren't people cruel' misanthropy

hey this is why I couldn't make it through Berlin Alexanderplantz! people are evil and stupid and cruel zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* I guess the epilogue had some okay moments here and there

dogville's appeal to me was that i thought it was v. entertaining. it was like a punk'd remake of the crucible.

and the staging device yes is a gimmick but really well done. i don't mind gimmicks, i just want people to know what they're doing with them. plus i could listen to john hurt's narration all day.

calling it a movie given the second-generation-vid look is a dollop of kindness tho.

Not all of them are ENTIRELY evil and stupid and cruel, Shakey! No more than the average Altman gallery.

and i totally read dogville as cautionary, not condemnatory. i.e. not "people are terrible," just "people can be terrible, so watch it." which is a totally sensible and not at all people-hating pov.

it was like a punk'd remake of the crucible.

OTM!

Plus, Dogville had a lot of gorgeously processed shots in there too. Way more "filmic" than, I dunno, Crimson Gold or whatever also-great-but-butt-ugly-looking movies got big ups from lefty critics at the time.

maybe im a retard but all this 'truly great movie' stuff just brings me back to zodiac, which affected me like practically nothing else

punk'd adds sumthin?

post-The Kingdom, von Trier challenges my dogma(e) that being an asshole is irrelevant to one's artistry...

And you were just praising David O. Russell a few posts up?

I think the Kingdom is the only thing of his I've really dug. That Bjork movie was unwatchable (I think I have a hard time with completely unsympathetic protagonists - its no problem if the protagonist is evil/stupid/whatever as long as they're made interesting and relatable, but if they're not I just tune out...)

'crimson gold' got in and got out, showed you a bit of tehran, did its thing. wouldn't watch it again. but 'dogville' was a real striver, and so long! i think LVT is weird about punishing women. honestly no idea what the film has to recommend it. preferred even 'it's all about love'.

xpost

maybe im a retard but all this 'truly great movie' stuff just brings me back to zodiac, which affected me like practically nothing else

-- and what, Friday, January 18, 2008 6:22 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

yeah me too. i don't usually care for truly great movies (it's kind of a vote for significance or what people in the future will think) but this was one.

xp: no, the ways in which Russell seems to be an asshole haven't surfaced in the films themselves, so far as I can tell.

LVT is weird about punishing women

^^^^ding ding ding. it gets really tiresome. also its mostly lacking from the Kingdom, which is perhaps why I enjoy that more.

xp: no, the ways in which Russell seems to be an asshole haven't surfaced in the films themselves, so far as I can tell.

-- Dr Morbius, Friday, January 18, 2008 6:27 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

haha i had to make this argument to my editor this week when he aksed how i could like a director who was so nasty IRL.

also Eric, Jerry Lewis is kind of a fiend IRL. "women can't be funny" etc

Hey, I'm all about asshole directors.

And anti-humanitarians.

some of LVT's films (dogville, breaking the waves, etc.) are more specifically about a woman's ability to transcend punishment. sexist maybe, but the characters are at least strong.

the wimmin-hatin' bothered me more in breaking the waves and dancer than dogville (the only one of the three where the victim gets revenge). his sadism does always feel gleeful, so my reaction to the movies partly depends on how much i'm willing to share in the glee. (otoh i prefer gleeful sadism to whatever kind you get from michael haneke, say.)

zodiac is really good. i need to see it again, like was said up above it keeps getting better in my head.

I liek Haneke and Von Triers so apparently I like mean europeans. YAY EUROPE!

how bout catherine breillat? she's pretty mean. (i don't like her much but am kind of interested in her new one.)

I really draw the line at vaginal mega-closeups.

i havent seen everything yet, but im with the zodiac backers...i can't imagine that it won't end up being the best film of the year for me.

and im not sure why "power corrupts" and "people are cruel" are considered naive politics?

ethan is right, fargo is the best one.

i always suspect ppl who use the "smug" and "misanthropic" and "they hate their characters" stuff are responding more to reviews of the coens than the actual movies.

i mean if you're still throwing down confident pronouncements about a movie you haven't seen since 1996 it's hard to believe you're that interested in engaging with something which you've already decided (judging from the quality of ppl who like it) is beneath you. but that's no surprise.

and jesus christ does every single fucking work of art have to be a renoir-esque celebration of life? so long, jonathan swift/ambrose bierce/flannery o'connor/joe orton/mike judge.

mike judge eh

tried to sneak that one in there

going back - Morbs', you're repping for the worst scene in Huckabee. The kitchen scene about Jesus with the giant Hummer DO YOU SEE sign outside... ugh.

I haven't seen Pan's Labyrinth or Children of Men since the theater, but I think those were the last two new movies I'd call great. Before that, 25th Hour.

children of men would be the last movie i loved before zodiac, but zodiac is better

pans labyrinth was tim burton/vertigo comix bullshit

crazy talk!

i liked it ok esp capt vidale & the chekovian doctor but the goth fantasy crap was boring and gay

i thot children of men was pretty great but i have to say as much as i liked zodiac (a lot!) it wasnt my fave movie of the year by a long shot. but maybe i dont get what the criteria are? honestly i dont really like the "what was the last truly GREAT movie" conversation, it strikes me a useless excuse to show off and act like a dick

honestly i dont really like the "what was the last truly GREAT movie" conversation ilx, it strikes me a useless excuse to show off and act like a dick

-- max, Friday, January 18, 2008 4:29 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

lazy joek

pans labyrinth was fuckin great i thot, incl the boring gay goth fantasy

yes i loved the boring gay goth fantasy and i never go for stuff like that. it wasn't really a fantasy...OR WAS IT?

fargo is so fucking good and lol @ morbius of ny arguing w/ southerners and midwesterners that fargo is offensive but raising arizon isnt

im standing halfway between and what and slocki here

i liked pans labyrinth until the end!! cant believe they felt the need to make sure you knew it was just her imagination