What's the deal with Americans and nudity? [WORK-SAFE AGANE HURRAH]

Don't make me tell my Budapest public baths story.

There he is that hairy hound from Budapest. Never have I ever seen a ruder pest.

Other advantage to finding oneself naked among a whole lot of other naked people for a relatively short period of time: you realize "oh, yes, there are actually a WHOLE LOT of body types out there, and they're basically all okay, and most are better than okay."

This was one of the best things said on this thread. I think because of all those unisex saunas Finns don't feel so ashamed of their bodies. Seeing people regularly reveals that nobody has a perfect body, and then again, everybody has beautiful body. Also, it helps to have a non-complicated attitude towards nudity, one where you don't automatically associate it with sex; but you can have erotic nudity as well, it's all in the context.

I'm not saying everybody should regularly get butt-naked against their will, but it'd probably help to lessen the negative feelings some people here feel towards their bodies. I was pretty sad to read Dee's comment about her body being disgusting; it isn't, Dee, since no body is. That's just the effect the current Western beauty standards have on people, and I think seeing "regular" naked bodies might just be a good counter-medicine against that effect, even if it isn't the whole solution. Ultimately, however, we need to get rid of such standards, because their quite damaging both mentally and physically.

One of our hosts, after she'd had a few drinks, told me that when there weren't Americans present, everyone usually saunaed together at parties, and that "Finns like to pretend that it's totally non-sexual." Then she started giggling.

Of course you can say that nothing's non-sexual, but I can assure you sauna isn't any more sexual than any other ordinary situation where you spend time with the members of the opposite sex (or the same sex, if you're gay). For starters, as I've understood it's quite hard even to get hard-on in sauna (the Finnish sauna is quite hot, from 70 to 90 degrees Celsius); that Tom of Finland picture isn't in any way realistic. Also, because saunaing is such a commonplace thing in Finland, and people do it from childhood to old age, it surely hasn't any more sexual aura for Finns than any other commonday activity. I'm sure a foreigner unaccustomed to unisex saunas could find the experience erotic, but were he to stay longer in Finland, the effect would soon wear off.

Going into a sauna during a party??? I don't get it.

You'll have to understand that sauna is a big, big part of Finnish life; many apartments and most single-family houses have their own sauna, and people go there on weekly bases, with family or with friends. So if you're having a party in a place where there's sauna, it's quite common for someone to warm it up and for people to go there at some point during the evening. It's also quite common to have "sauna evenings" where people gather up especially for the reason of saunaing, socializing with friends and drinking some beer (there is even a Finnish phrase "sauna beer", which refers to the beer you drink after you come out of the sauna).

I miss the early nineties Euro-hip hop fashion, you know, über-wide trousers and big sweatshirts with weird pictures or patterns in 'em. And the assortment of colours! Orange, light green, light blue, even pink! It's the only time in my life I've looked cool wearing a pair of orange jeans the size of a tent.
Compared to that, the US hip hop fashion always looked bland to me.

Come on, that wasn't just a Finnish thing. Even East 17 wore those tent-size trousers back then...

Ummmmm., obv. teasing about the tent trousers....kind of..... :-)

I still don't buy this notion of seeing other people naked makes you feel better about yourself. It implies that people don't know what other people actually look like naked, when of course, they know all too well. Every body and everybody is beautiful. No they're not. Some people need to get up off the couch and ride a bike or take a walk and stop eating so much frozen lasagne. It's possible to look better and if you try, you'll oddly feel better about yourself. [okay, okay, okay, up to a point....]

Current western beauty standards...there have always been "current" western beauty standards, people have always been self conscious if they looked different, say dark complected in the middle ages when fair skin ruled, too thin, too fat, whatever. Humans have standards, that's what makes us humans. Right now, it's thin, but you can't blame the media for everything. People know what looks good.

Your question is still interesting, but it has much more to do with Americans (and I think english too) equating nudity with sex on a basic level. Even in europe at nude or mixed beaches, it's usually the older people who are totally nude. Young people tend not to be nude as much.

But I will still say, that although every body has its flaws, it's not ridiculous slaving to the media culture to try to look as "good" as you can, within reason. Obviously, if you're in the gym changing room seeing these other naked people, Emma, you feel that way too. There are also a lot of health advantages, etc. Europeans still aren't as fat as Americans. Americans are simply enormous, statistically, many morbidly obese. Learning to love your extra 75-100 lbs. or more isn't a good solution.

people have always been self conscious if they looked different, say dark complected in the middle ages when fair skin ruled, too thin, too fat, whatever

This is starting to remind me of that Curiosity Killed The Cat song, "Misfit", you know -- "Too fat, too thin, you lose or you win/This may come as some surprise/Too tall, too short, too loose or too taut/There'll be a bind for every kind". Great, catchy pop song. Just not feeling it at the moment.

*laughs* I won't get into the issues I've been dealing with over my skin color in this thread, btw. I think that's another thread altogether. :)

Everbody and everybody is beautiful. No they're not. Some people need to get up off the couch and ride a bike or take a walk and stop eating so much frozen lasagne. It's possible to look better and if you try, you'll oddly feel better about yourself. [okay, okay, okay, up to a point....]

As much I agree with you about (severe) obesity being unhealthy, I disagree with beauty and healthiness/slimness being the same thing. You can say to an obese person that he should lose some weight to avoid cardiovascular diseases, osteoarthritis etc., but it is a different thing to say that he should lose weight because he's not beautiful. Health and aesthetics are not the same. Of course you could argue that the guilt of not corresponding to the beauty standards will cause the person to lose weight, but because today's standards are so absurdly strict, I don't think it's the best way to deal wíth obesity. Mild obesity is not even a particularly big health risk (in fact according to some studies it may even benefit health, especially with women), but we've been lead to believe it's not beautiful, which is wrong. I'd rather live in a world where it's okay to be chubby than in a world where everyone wants to be slim because it's "beautiful".

(I sometimes feel like a hypocrite saying these things, when I myself am a 65-kilo weakling, but at least I'm not slim because of a concious choice, or because I'd feel uncomfortable if I were heavier. It's just hard for me to gain weight.)

that said, it's true that in France, for instance, we have nudity here, there and everywhere... and somehow, we're not blasés !

xpost

we should start a newsgroup...
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