The Matrix Reloaded (full spoilers)

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Wait, Ned - Did you see this movie??? I have a theory that you haven't based on what you have/haven't been saying on this thread!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 29 May 2003 19:59 (twenty-three years ago)

re CGI quality in the scene w/100 Agent Smiths: they ARE fighting inside a computer program after all!! i doubt the Matrix has EVER had to handle that many polygons and that kind of framerate at once—especially with a virus in the mix, i actually thought it was a neat touch

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 29 May 2003 20:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Has anybody else ever noticed that small birds and insects have a terrible refresh rate?

― Millar (Millar), Thursday, 29 May 2003 20:03 (twenty-three years ago)

That would be neat if it was intended, which I kind of doubt it was. Maybe a General Protection Fault window could pop up in the air.

― slutsky (slutsky), Thursday, 29 May 2003 20:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Wait, Ned - Did you see this movie??? I have a theory that you haven't based on what you have/haven't been saying on this thread!

That's amazing, Spencer! You'll be claiming I don't like Andrew WK next!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 May 2003 20:08 (twenty-three years ago)

i doubt the Matrix has EVER had to handle that many polygons and that kind of framerate at once

ironically this wasnt the problem, seems people have issues with the quality of modelling and animating itself. i personally have nothing but raw intense love for that fight scene

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 29 May 2003 20:39 (twenty-three years ago)

like Andy Warhol (and perhaps the Warchowskis in this case) i am often so enthralled by the concept, that the execution of said concept becomes of secondary importance to realising that concept quickly so it can be 'out there' at the right time

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 29 May 2003 20:42 (twenty-three years ago)

But don't modern videogames automagically "de-res" when too much starts happening at once? Ha once you've said "everything in this movie is fake" any explanation becomes possible for anything, especially dumb-ass glitches.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 29 May 2003 22:18 (twenty-three years ago)

My cell phone is behaving erratically. I think the world is an illusion controlled by Satan.

― Millar (Millar), Thursday, 29 May 2003 22:27 (twenty-three years ago)

i just can't believe anyone's watching that fight scene, noticing the CGI-ness and deciding its crap as a result. you might as well say all action sequences in video games are rubbish. its still a great action sequence in a film irrespective of that film's other flaws.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 29 May 2003 22:30 (twenty-three years ago)

'suspension of disbelief'

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 29 May 2003 22:33 (twenty-three years ago)

aka 'the ability to pull shit off'

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 29 May 2003 22:33 (twenty-three years ago)

The Smith fight seen was incredible. Those who did not enjoy it were probably paying too much attention to the background: i.e. the fight coreography, at every point, presented specifically appreciable problems of how even a Neo could avoid being hit, and then had Neo resolve those problems in stunning ways. I will say this is a quality with both the Matrix 1 and Fist of Legend, which was by the same guy, though I am assuming Matrix 2 had the same coreographer: but it was entirely gripping in the Smith scene anyway, and exciting as shit. If you actually WATCHED IT.

Hell we're on a music discussion site. Who likes being told the best guitar-solo ever has sloppy finger-work? It's pointless. Get your heads in the game, for real.

As for the rave, it was OK, I say OK, once it became stylish instead of jungle-wierd, like maybe if the sex was not unpleasant that whole segment of the movie would have been pulled off.

― Brian Mowrey (Brian Mowrey), Friday, 30 May 2003 00:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Hell we're on a music discussion site.

Er, this is ILE, not ILM.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 30 May 2003 00:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Though I was just glad, really, that the movie exceeded my expectations of every fight being as undramatic as the early fights: even the full trailers showed nothing to suggest otherwise.

But when Morpheus totally fucks the shit out of the ghost guys, and out of nowhere, alone would have made Matrix 2 more intense and exciting for me then 99% of other moview: and as far as reducing it to action/philosophy in minutes, you still get more good action time here then any other American movie can get away with. So that is a stupid complaint.

All in all it was fucking great.

― Brian Mowrey (Brian Mowrey), Friday, 30 May 2003 00:08 (twenty-three years ago)

That is why I said 'site' and not 'board'. Take that.

Lastly, you can't go tearing people's code apart when your fighting more than one, let alone more than 99. You're going to get your ass kicked while you sit there.

― Brian Mowrey (Brian Mowrey), Friday, 30 May 2003 00:09 (twenty-three years ago)

This was fun typing, I say fun typing, hmm!

― Brian Mowrey (Brian Mowrey), Friday, 30 May 2003 00:11 (twenty-three years ago)

get your head in the game Brian

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 30 May 2003 01:34 (twenty-three years ago)

which was by the same guy

Yuen Woo-Ping, also responsible for fight choreography on Croughing Tiger Hidden Dragon, and the new Zu Warriors, which will never be shown over here because God hates me.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 30 May 2003 09:50 (twenty-three years ago)

y'all need to see this animatrix stuff, no fooling. s'gorgeous.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 30 May 2003 15:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Who is in the Zu Warriors?

― Brian Mowrey (Brian Mowrey), Friday, 30 May 2003 16:42 (twenty-three years ago)

mark s to thread, he's got it on VDO tape (tho mebbe has not seen ver Matrix part deux so will not read this thread?)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 30 May 2003 16:53 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.apple.com/trailers/miramax/zu_warriors.html

― Stuart (Stuart), Friday, 30 May 2003 16:58 (twenty-three years ago)

whoa ho! that looks grate ( = looks just as cheesy as the first one!)

i hope they keep the plot just as incomprehensible

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 30 May 2003 18:00 (twenty-three years ago)

so if we buy this stuff about the 23 council members, maybe the councillor was the old neo, version five. the french couple was hilarious; i like gremlins-2-style sequel humour. i stuck around for the preview for revolutions which appeared to be all about a big big fight between smith and neo, being watched by the other smiths - there was an oracle narration on top that made it sound like smith was the key to everything working out... i liked it - the fight scene with all the swords and stuff was fucking great. also the keymaster was adorable.

― dave k, Saturday, 31 May 2003 18:53 (twenty-three years ago)

did they ever explain exactly what prophecy morpheus was convinced of? obviously something about winning fast but anything more specific??

― dave k, Saturday, 31 May 2003 19:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Did anyone here not laugh when the Merovingian made that woman's vagina explode?

― s1utsky (slutsky), Saturday, 31 May 2003 21:32 (twenty-three years ago)

also, what the hell sort of name is the merovingian??

― dave k, Saturday, 31 May 2003 23:03 (twenty-three years ago)

see above corporate mofo link, though for all I know about european history, it could be total b.s.

― teeny (teeny), Sunday, 1 June 2003 02:37 (twenty-three years ago)

the merovingians were a line of kings & also a grail-themed holy order of knights.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 1 June 2003 02:58 (twenty-three years ago)

VAGINIMERON

― Dan I., Sunday, 1 June 2003 07:27 (twenty-three years ago)

NEDuchadnezzar

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 1 June 2003 11:42 (twenty-three years ago)

BIIIIIIG dropoff in box office this weekend also

― James Blount (James Blount), Sunday, 1 June 2003 17:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, I noticed. They're in what, fourth?

― s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 1 June 2003 17:38 (twenty-three years ago)

with any luck they'll just ditch the third one and we can be in this state of suspended speculation 4-eva

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 1 June 2003 17:44 (twenty-three years ago)

FOURTH!!! - behind Nemo (understandable) Bruce Almighty (slightly understandable) and the Italian Job (wha?!!!) - and the thing is, it ain't like the Italian Job had a big opening.

― James Blount (James Blount), Sunday, 1 June 2003 17:48 (twenty-three years ago)

If Zion is not the real world, but instead is another level of simulation that Neo overcomes at the end of the film, could this explain the totally lame Zion scenes?

As well as Morpheus's speech (that Tracer mentions above), the rave sequence was totally rubb...unless...it is meant to represent a questionable 'alternative' lifestyle that is being manufactured for the few who 'live' in Zion (questionable is the key word here - this is why it is done so poorly). Continuing this line of thought, the sex scene was completely lame...unless...sexuality is being used as a passifier to placate the minds of the citizens of Zion and make them think that they are experiencing an authentic reality.

Trinity could also be a passifying program designed to keep Neo down - this would be a plot development for the next film. Alternatively, I could just be making excuses for the poor parts of Matrix Reloaded.

― bert (bert), Sunday, 1 June 2003 18:01 (twenty-three years ago)

It's like when people tried to convince themselves that the last act of Minority Report was a brilliantly conceived dream sequence.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 1 June 2003 18:09 (twenty-three years ago)

i dont think the rave and sex scene were lame as such, just curiously 'old-fashioned' and too rooted in old cliches you would expect this film/concept with the scope it has to avoid more e.g. Morpehus speech technically fine but just very dated and inevitably cheesy...the sex scene (more of a love scene lets face it) wasnt actually that bad, i got the impression it was all about 'man, imagine having sex with The One!' tho frankly i think i'd rather not

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 1 June 2003 18:56 (twenty-three years ago)

That rave bit had been going about seven seconds and I was thinking 'Fuck, this scene's going on far too long it's...wait, it's only a few seconds in, am I being silly....agh it's still going FUCK'.

'It occurs to me that this movie seems to be written for philosophical software engineers more than anyone else.'

As a first year philosophy student I lived with three software engineers whose unsubtle DVD pirating operation allowed me to see the Matrix for the first time.

The many-Smiths scene was kind of like them going 'This is ridiculous and overlong and OH JUST LOOK AT IT! Look at the effects! LOOK AT THEM! Hahaha!'. A bit like that TvGoHome show where a hand holds up a shiny coin for you to stare dumbly at (and that entire last Star Wars thing), but in a good way.

The anticlimactic dreadlock albino twins reminded me of Luke Haines.

The Matrix is supposed to like, send you spiralling into all these big-ass epistemological crises ennit, but I'm probably just gonna lose sleep over the above Morpheus = Evil theory.

― Ferg (Ferg), Monday, 2 June 2003 00:25 (twenty-three years ago)

I laughed and laughed and laughed until a couple of sci-fi nerds two rows in front of me threatened to set their phasers on "Dork" and take aim at me.
Laughed during the rave/sex scene
when the action was randomly and needlessly slo-moed and we had to wait like thirty seconds to see a bullet go exactly where it was obviously heading. I guess that's what passes for dramatic tension.
when the keymaker says "I'm here because my purpose is to be here." Meaning, "I'm a plot device that miraculously does little to advance the plot."

this was one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Everything that was cool about the first one was completely negated by Reloaded. For all the trouble they've gone to to create this credible Matrix-verse, they sure left a lot of loopholes.
Suddenly I'm looking forward to more shitty Star Wars movies.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 2 June 2003 14:02 (twenty-three years ago)

slo-mo not necessarily needless - the technique is deployed partly to show off but also to highlight the beauty of actions that often occur too fast for the human eye/mind to fully register and appreciate. the speed of bullets, the fleeting flash of fire that announces each shot fired, rather like the choreographed combat scenes the interplay of slow/fast action can be likened to ballet or other dance-based performance, if nothing else its a useful tool for reminding how epic the story's premise is and how important every action can be potentially i.e. firing shot at Trinity may hit and kill her which might have major consequences depending on Neo's reaction (as it turns out he disappointingly just shoves his healing hands in her and gives her a heart massage i think)

Everything that was cool about the first one was completely negated by Reloaded

how exactly?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 2 June 2003 14:10 (twenty-three years ago)

another thought: the rave/love scene tie-in...take it out of its supposed cyber/futuristic context and you could have an exact replica of the scene in a film like Braveheart or similar ie medieval/period epic drama. i bet it wouldnt get laughed at half as much.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 2 June 2003 14:12 (twenty-three years ago)

(as it turns out he disappointingly just shoves
his healing hands in her and gives her a heart massage i think)
This reminded me of those psychic surgery scams that were popular in the Phillipines and ridiculed by Penn & Teller.

Everything that was cool about the first one was completely negated by Reloaded

how exactly?

All of the ambience created by the element of the Unknown was lost. By trying to codify what had before simply been overwhelming and nebulous, they trivialized the entire Matrix concept.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 2 June 2003 14:29 (twenty-three years ago)

i don't think they did that, unless you accept that as a natural, nay, unavoidable, consequence of doing further installments (which is what it is rather than a sequel as such). and i think to call films like this or even Episode 1 & 2 the 'worst films ever' is more oTT than those who think Reloaded is better than the first Matrix film (which I initially did although admittedly now I hold them in equal esteem). why are things like dialogue and general acting regarded as more important than aesthetics and artistic and technical execution of the film irrespective of its cast? its comparable to the way a lot of music is derided for lame/hackneyed lyrics despite boasting excellent production. perhaps this film is the equivalent to that but then i think it does actually offer something more if not equal to that of a supposedly 'mindless/throwaway' pop song in terms of emotional resonance. the Matrix doesn't have to be construed as mere mindless yarn...nor is it high-art cinema. somewhere inbetween definitely, much like the predicament its leading characters are now in.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 2 June 2003 14:58 (twenty-three years ago)

I expected more/better.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 2 June 2003 15:03 (twenty-three years ago)

we could say the same of your criticisms Horace

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 2 June 2003 15:11 (twenty-three years ago)

but you'd be lying.
You don't expect much from me, admit it.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 2 June 2003 15:17 (twenty-three years ago)

don't pull that thang out unless you plan to bang

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 2 June 2003 15:27 (twenty-three years ago)

why are things like dialogue and general acting regarded as more important than aesthetics and artistic and technical execution of the film irrespective of its cast?

Stevem, I think most people's problem here (or at least mine) isn't neccessarily the quality of the dialogue (it was pretty bad in the first film too), but rather the overabundance of it--the too many long, long scenes of just talking heads, which never gave the movie the chance to build up any momentum. To me this is poor artistic execution.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 2 June 2003 15:39 (twenty-three years ago)

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