White trick-or-treaters in blackface: C/D?

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http://colorblind.typepad.com/the_colorblind_society/043541629_gsu_racialtension.jpg

You mean that picture alone? Yeah, it is kinda funny.

All of these blog entries have taught me that apparently, blackface is still a common practice. I mean, "Shirley Q. Liquor". Good grief.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:55 (twenty years ago)

xpost - yeah I figured that was Dan's point.

― J (Jay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:55 (twenty years ago)

i get offended that drag kings rely on such stereotypical views of masculinity.

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:56 (twenty years ago)

i don't agree that the use of the word 'nigger' is off limits regardless of context (although maybe i just get a juvenile rush out of typing it on a msg board when everyone goes on about it being the most offensive thing ever). i sort of agree with everything else but i still find the 'it's THEIR word not YOURS' rather patronising, and distracting itself.

And yes Ben Wallace is a RUBBISH Halloween costume because he is just a normal human.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:56 (twenty years ago)

bunch of xposts to sfxxx --

fuck that, things aren't ever that rigid! There are many explicable and inoffensive contexts for use of a word like "nigger" (swap in 'spic' or 'faggot' or 'bitch' or what-have-you…) be they scholastic, illustrative, recaimed, or as emblematic of a particular attitude or speech pattern. Provided they're used with an awareness of their history and context, and among people who understand their use as other than blankly derisive or for labelling purposes, I hardly see any reason why we should continue to avoid them at all costs. It's privileging in this way that continues to keep them powerful and hurtful.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:56 (twenty years ago)

halloween really is chock full of "get me! i'm a..." opportunities for offensiveness.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:57 (twenty years ago)

haha i have totally considered buying a negro leagues tee before, unfortunately theyre pretty unpopular here and end up in discount bins alot, the only clothes i dont get with for whitey reasons are 1) algierz baller caricature stuff 2) REMEMBER THEM DAYS food stamps tees (even tho i i grew up on welfare/free lunch theres a specific racial context to those shirts that i would be uncomfortable with, also blown up food stamps make ugly shirts) 3) styles p IM BLACK ruff ryders tees (admittedly i would be embarrassed to wear any ruff ryders gear)

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:57 (twenty years ago)

what I mean is: it's the implied signified and not the signifier that is offensive.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:57 (twenty years ago)

http://www.sohoweeklynews.com/Book/Music/wayne_county_std.jpg

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:58 (twenty years ago)

IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE FOR WHITE PEOPLE TO BLACK UP, EVER?

Such a stupid blanket statement.

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:58 (twenty years ago)

http://www.alohabears.org/images/Sailing%20april%2004/Franknfurter%20web.jpg

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:59 (twenty years ago)

like i said i think n-word is off limits for any general use but obv not racist when written into the blazing saddles script by mel brooks or said in michael rappaports monologue in bamboozled (which actually addresses alot of the "admiration" issues here- jordan & tyson posters framed in the office, " brother man im blacker than you are")

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:59 (twenty years ago)

and i know everyone is being "funny" but i do think theres a lot of nasty sexism behind the creation and consumption of male transvestitism

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:00 (twenty years ago)

i agree with remy's post i think.

if i were a parent perhaps i will, as well as teaching them not to offend people with blackface etc., also to teach them not to take offence themselves of these things that are, fairly outdated ideas/connotations.

i think this would make the world a better place.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:01 (twenty years ago)

"haha i have totally considered buying a negro leagues tee before, unfortunately theyre pretty unpopular here and end up in discount bins alot"

surely that's a bonus.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:02 (twenty years ago)

I wasn't being "funny" about it, Ethan. The sexist implications of male transvestitism is exactly why I brought it up.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:03 (twenty years ago)

IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE FOR WHITE PEOPLE TO BLACK UP, EVER?
Such a stupid blanket statement.

-- jdubz (dr_...), November 1st, 2005.

yes, we know stelfox can do much better

― ILX, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:03 (twenty years ago)

One of my coworkers was telling me yesterday how while at school in New York, one of his friends decided to go as a "reverse mime" for Halloween, wearing a white suit and black face paint, and subsequently went to Harlem in this costume unaware that it was actually blackface. Oops.

― Laura H. (laurah), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:03 (twenty years ago)

theres a lot of nasty sexism behind the creation and consumption of male transvestitism

plz note also said creation and consumption occurs against a backdrop of of nasty homophobia as well

― J (Jay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:04 (twenty years ago)

ben wallace is no ordinary man! he's santa claus!

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:05 (twenty years ago)

ken im broker than a motherfucker thats a large part of why i was gonna be buying them!! also miccio i know, i meant ile's hilarious img src posse with googled jpgs of trannys

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:06 (twenty years ago)

BAD. SANTA.

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:06 (twenty years ago)

What about the black kids in white face??

http://www.screenselect.co.uk/images/products/7/1327-large.jpg

I'll get my coat.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:07 (twenty years ago)

when I was 12 or so, I dressed as Arthur Dent for halloween. senior year, one of the black kids in my class was Angela Davis. Another was Ray Charles, and three tres popular (white) girls he hung out with were dressed like those in the Pepsi commercial.

you can kinda see how some fucked up kid might draw the conclusion that hitler would make a good costume

better ban GTA while you're at it

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:07 (twenty years ago)

jdubz, whoever the fuck you are, re my statement being stupid because it's blanket: sometimes things are right or wrong, plain and simple. and it wasn't like i didn't explain my position pretty clearly. please explain when you think it's good for white people to paint themselves black for a laugh...
Remy, i really don't agree with you, sorry.

1) algierz baller caricature stuff

i got given a heap of this stuff and i do admit, i only ever bust it out when the rest of my clothes smell, because i feel a complete twat in it!

― sfxxx, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:07 (twenty years ago)

that was my favorite movie when i was 14!! the soundtrack got me into curtis mayfield!!!

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

ahahaha dave mail me some algierz plz

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

This is the most idiotic thread I've ever read.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:09 (twenty years ago)

here's a photo of me as requested
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/kenjuggle3/2.jpg

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:10 (twenty years ago)

krowr, ken.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

er...

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

This is the most idiotic thread I've ever read.
-- Alfred Soto (sotoal...), November 1st, 2005.

u musn't have been here long

― comment, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, Alfred, search for some of the old "shout for the moderator" threads if you think this is bad!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

the attitude that leads to avoiding actually vocalizing offensive words (vs. just indicating them with stuff like 'N*****' or 'f4g') is part and parcel with the attitude that has people convinced that God prefers being written as G-D.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

yes and another reason for that attitude is part and parcel with holding a civilized discussion throughout a wide group of people who may not agree with you on the white heterosexual right to say those words

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

This is precisely what I mean: bad analogies.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

i mean i used to make fun of sterl for writing "n-a" when quoting rap lyrics but i was a teenager w/ teenage friends, since growing up and talking to older people who actually fought in civil rights battles instead of mostly reaping the rewards of it i can understand the power those words still hold no matter what the context

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

yeah go choke on cock "alfred soto" you came in the thread after 300 new answers to post rocky horror jpgs and whine about it

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

I actually don't think I even understand that analogy.

xpost I do understand what "choke on cock" means though.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

that attack doesn't seem helpful.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

thanks jaymc

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

it seems like every insult either suggests that sex (usually gay sex) is unpleasant or insults the person's mother. that's why I settle for "eat shit." scatmunchers can deal with the aspersion. I should probably be embarassed that I've thought about this.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

Out of curiosity (and not to pull some "aha! hypocrite!" bullshit), does cross-dressing deserve a similarly hardline inexcusability? or is sexual identity different enough from racial identity (with transgenderism and all) to make it permissable? there's definitely an offensive theatrical history in regards to women.
-- miccio (anthonyisrigh...), November 1st, 2005.

It depends how you're defining "cross-dressing". This is a HUGE subject, and needs its own thread, if it doesn't already have one.

I know I'm probably stating the obvious, but dressing in women's clothing because it fulfills some inner need or because it feels right are very different than dressing up in women's clothes to set out to mock women. For the most part, I'd say that people of either sex dressing in a manner that subverts traditional gender-roles serves to challenge patriachy, rather than to reaffirm it.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:26 (twenty years ago)

actually, white heterosexuals, like black homosexuals, have the constitutional right, barring some limited circumstances, to say any word they please.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:26 (twenty years ago)

As for "go choke on cock" - you say that like its a bad thing...

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:26 (twenty years ago)

err..x-post

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:27 (twenty years ago)

and ken...you look HOT in a shower curtain.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:29 (twenty years ago)

I wrote a whole paper on this once -- I think drag is fairly problematic, esp. drag of the Dame Edna/Mrs. Doubtfire/Aunt Blabby/Sheneneh/Geraldine variety.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

Did you get an A?

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

Transvestism, while it does destabilize the assumption that gender is based on biological sex, does actually promote and reaffirm some rather oppressive stereotypes of "feminine" behavior and appearance, especially when the physical body becomes plastic through surgical procedure. (q.v. Amanda Lepore)

That said, I think you might have trouble proving that transgendered individuals actually feel oppressed by gender signifiers they have chosen.

― elmo (allocryptic), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:33 (twenty years ago)

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