the psychology and politics of talking about CELEBRITY DEATH on the internet (and ilx)

am kind of dumbfounded that some ppl here would so roughly categorize aw as "a celebrity"--like, didn't we all sign up for this godforsaken site in the first place because we feel deeply connected to music (and in most cases, to the musicians that make the music we like?).

i mean it's not like, i dunno, if ryan reynolds got hit by a car and everyone was super bummed out about it. i feel like when a musician dies young, even if you don't care for that particular musician, ilx is the one place where you would instinctively give ppl room to express their sadness.

this godforsaken site

<3

Alex Chilton RIP 2010

lol

like, didn't we all sign up for this godforsaken site in the first place because we feel deeply connected to music (and in most cases, to the musicians that make the music we like?).

pretty sure many of us did, but then the lure of taking personal frustrations out on strangers via being a huge dick became too seductive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh8zcbC_Dcw

RIP threads - classic or dud?
Starting RIP threads: C/D
Being numbed by all these R.I.P. threads

Alex Chilton RIP 2010

― buzza, Sunday, July 24, 2011 11:26 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol at least cank's posts had some absurdist flair as opposed to the aspie "let me express skepticism in the emotional reactions of others" posting that folks indulge in the rest of the time.

some of us never signed up for ilm fwiw

What causes the weird dick-measuring contests over Facebook where people compete to see how sad they are over the loss of someone they never met?

This, I think, is absolutely salient and the subconscious self expression that really holds the key to the entire question.

Because I don't think I've *ever* seen people competing to express grief or sadness or loss over someone's death.

What I *have*, however, seen a huge amount of - on ILX and social media and IRL and elsewhere - is alterna-oriented dudes having dick-waving competitions about who can appear to be caring ~LESS~ about "Celebrity Cultury" or "Celebrities" in general or individual human beings that they take to be personnifications of "Celebrity."

It's really easy, if you don't actually care about a person, or a phenomenon, to register a shrug and just, you know, not say anything. It actually takes quite some amount of effort to go on a thread to crow about exactly how little you care about this celebrity in particular, or celebrities in general and tell other people that their responses or emotional reactions are, you know, ~shallow~ or something.

Because alterna-oriented indie dudes have so much ~better~ and ~important~ things to express outrage and indignation and ~BEING OFFENDED~ about. Like, IDK, annoying chicks who take their iPads out at indie rock gigs?

Because I don't think I've *ever* seen people competing to express grief or sadness or loss over someone's death.

Diana?

xp not sure how you managed to turn this into a sexism thing, but well done

i'm guessing whiney's phrase "dick-waving" may have something to do w/it

or "dick-measuring" to be precise, sorry

Tom, was the Diana thing so much about competition to show grief, or about admonishing others for not showing the "proper" amount of grief? Because I don't think that's so much a case of competition as something else.

Well done, Jordan, I'm not sure how you projected that into my post; it might actually help if you read what I did say, instead of your expectations of the kind of thing you thought I might say?

Re: Diana. Could be.

annoying chicks who take their iPads out at indie rock gigs?

― Aphex Twin … in my vagina? (Karen D. Tregaskin), Monday, July 25, 2011 5:38 AM (55 minutes ago)

c'mon karen & del — y'all know that if amy winehouse had had a dick she woulda been whipping it out CONSTANTLY

xpost or an ipad

What I *have*, however, seen a huge amount of - on ILX and social media and IRL and elsewhere - is alterna-oriented dudes having dick-waving competitions about who can appear to be caring ~LESS~ about "Celebrity Cultury" or "Celebrities" in general or individual human beings that they take to be personnifications of "Celebrity."

OTM. That position also completely misses the fact that celebrity culture exists to tear down the notion of pop stars as flawless demi-gods, not to promote it. Gossip sites and tabloids spend most of their time trying to make readers feel a sense of smug superiority, posting about how little you care about X, Y or Z dying is doing the same thing by different means.

indifference ftw

When a homeless drunk is found dead in an alley by my house, I feel bad. Why would I not feel anything when a celebrity dies? But I do think that I am intruding on the family's grief if I comment too much....it feels like attention whoring, which isn't appropriate when someone dies.

When an acquaintance's family member dies, I send my condolences or a card and move on.

xp not sure how you managed to turn this into a sexism thing, but well done

― J0rdan S., Monday, July 25, 2011 5:49 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i'm guessing whiney's phrase "dick-waving" may have something to do w/it

― dell (del), Monday, July 25, 2011 5:55 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i stole the phrase from Maura, btw

What I *have*, however, seen a huge amount of - on ILX and social media and IRL and elsewhere - is alterna-oriented dudes having dick-waving competitions about who can appear to be caring ~LESS~ about "Celebrity Cultury" or "Celebrities" in general or individual human beings that they take to be personnifications of "Celebrity."

btw, i've seen this too, and it's just as bad as internet grief-offs imo

i mean it's not like, i dunno, if ryan reynolds got hit by a car and everyone was super bummed out about it

idk that sounds like it would be p sad to me

i honestly don't think I've ever heard a single AW song start to finish and have no connection to her at all but death is almost always sad on some level i guess

oh and I didn't read this thread so I'm sorry if that's not relevant I just wanted to stick up for Ryan Reynolds cause I feel like he gets a lot of shit unfairly. Ok maybe not a lot but it would still be sad!

feel like this would be a better thread if there weren't a kind of winehouse-esque 'not long for this world' aura around whiney

I don't think I've *ever* seen people competing to express grief or sadness or loss over someone's death.

other people have

It actually takes quite some amount of effort to go on a thread to crow about exactly how little you care about this celebrity in particular, or celebrities in general and tell other people that their responses or emotional reactions are, you know, ~shallow~ or something.

no it doesn't

xpost

otm

think it's fine for people to be moved by the deaths of people they like and respect. think it's (generally) not a huge deal if people make jokes either, joking about death is probably hard-wired into humans. feel like the internet and this board is full of overstatement and bile and general rudeness, this is just another part of that really.

this is gonna turn into a twilight zone episode where whiney realizes everybody else in the world is dead and that he's been interacting with ghosts

oooohHHHHHHHOOOOOOOooooooooo

^^^ that's me hauntin some shit up

Even the bad-taste jokes strike me as more tasteful than the BBC or Guardian or whoever liveblogging celebrity deaths like it was a football match - complete with C&Ping from Twitter to fill space.

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/ec2/36b/ec236b7f-ea80-49c4-86b1-ac61f0228325

I read through the comments on a few blogs and message boards and they were either from people who said they "saw it coming", people who had addicts as friends or family members and the young Gaga stans trolling around to say Their Monster Queen would be remembered in 20 years while nobody will remember Amy. So disrespectful.

ronan you love the overstatement and bile cmon

people who said they "saw it coming"

this includes pretty much everyone who had heard of amy winehouse, her mother included

not sure who is being disrespected in these exchanges: mostly, message boards are too big and lively to have people regulating manners

someone upthread said that since this was 'i love music', and amy winehouse made music, therefore everyone must love her and not snark up her RIP thread

idk, ilx didn't used to be that tame, and it's not even like 1) she was an especially beloved figure or 2) the RIP thread was unusually insensitive

when did you get so dumb?

oh it was you. what do you have against ryan reynolds?

nothin' at all

i feel like when a musician dies young, even if you don't care for that particular musician, ilx is the one place where you would instinctively give ppl room to express their sadness.

― call all destroyer, Monday, July 25, 2011 3:36 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark

a sad day for ilx

*shakes head, tear in eye*

lil paradox: imho ilx is a place where you can't really lay down the law about what 'ilx' is, or how it behaves

fwiw the rip thread was not unusually insensitive, i agree. but some ppl are being unbelievably dense about why some other ppl don't feel that rip threads need serve as a backup repository for all those vital dom passantino tweets.

lol frame it however you want i guess! my post was observational, i'm not "upset"

message boards are too big and lively to have people regulating manners

i do agree with this. esp as "manners" is such a vague term anyway, "bad manners" all over ilx, not just on rip threads.

no one's suggesting "regulating" manners, that's a bit like those daily mail readers going "oh we're not even allowed to make our racisty jokes any more because everyone's so bloody pc". but if you display poor manners you shouldn't be surprised or offended if you're called out on them.

http://www.theawl.com/?p=90380

tried to make me shut my big yap, I said...

Lex otm. It's no different then people hiding behind the "free speech" bubble when their opinions are challenged - you're free to speak your mind, but I can call you a cheesedick in response.

whiney I think your problem is that you want to jump straight to the sociological speculation about the phenomenon before there is actually a phenomenon to speculate on

Lex is just truthbomb levels of OTM on this thread, consistently.

xp (don't worry there are much worse problems to have, just givin u a heads-up)