2011 Oslo/Utoeya Norway attacks

Sort of feel that targeting white Norwegians (however much they are "traitors") gives the game away a bit. Isnt this the standard resentment of your imagined persecutors, those you imagine are excluding you? I'm probably wrong but I can't help but feel there is a disconnect between his politics and his act--he just wants to hurt those people who he imagined hurt him.

So, I am really speechless when I see the cult calling themselves national socialists
today. If you truly love our tribe, the Nordic tribes or any other European tribe, you must
learn and acknowledge that Hitler is a traitor to the Germanic and all European tribes,
NOT a hero. Hitler had the military capabilities necessary to liberate Jerusalem and the
nearby provinces from Islamic occupation. He could have easily worked out an
agreement with the UK and France to liberate the ancient Jewish Christian lands with the
purpose of giving the Jews back their ancestral lands. The UK and France would perhaps
even contribute to such a campaign in an effort to support European reconciliation. The
deportation of the Jews from Germany wouldn't be popular but eventually, the Jewish
people would regard Hitler as a hero because he returned the Holy land to them.

there is a strange recursive logic throughout, having created these strange taxonomies (category a and b traitors) they are reified to the nth to degree and treated as self-evident things

hundreds of pages seem to be devoted to the evils of miscegenation

though he is at pains to point out that he is very much not a racist

3. Destructive role models who propagate and glorify anti-authority/
revolutionary/anarchistic attitudes through the graffiti movement (which is a central part
of hip-hop).

I remember my active years in the hiphop movement as a continuous and intense orgy of
misconduct, manifested primarily through tagging and piecing. During my two most
active years at the age of 15 and 16, I estimate that myself (Morg), Richard (Spok) and
Jon Trygve (Wick) inflicted property damage (through bombing raids - "tagging") of
approximately 2 million Euro combined of which I inflicted aprox. 700 000. The three of
us were the most active of a loosely distributed "tagger force" numbering approximately
1000 at the time. This was during a primary peak of Hiphop, in 1994-1995.

That's also why Breivik's asking for a public hearing: he wants a soap box to let us all know he's saving us, etc
I don't think loads of extremists who got his manifesto will join his cause, but it is a danger - they're often very sensitive to that kind of historic glory blah blah blah

I'd be more concerned about his success in carrying out the killings, if we're talking about his being an example pour encourager les autres

geir, do you know more about the chances of him being released after 21 years?

Only his shrink knows. And only after 21 years.

The practice that makes it possible to lock up lunatics for life is still no older than 11 years or so. A guy who, together with his friend (who was not deemed "crazy" enough), raped and killed two little girls at a lake in Southern Norway was the first one to get this kind of sentence and he has still not yet even finished his ordinary sentence. So there is no practice to speak of, and not a lot of experience. However, a guy who had molested his own young son more than 100 times got out because he was a "hopeless case" and later travelled to Gambia to molest more kids, so it doesn't seem like it always works properly. :(

Sort of feel that targeting white Norwegians (however much they are "traitors") gives the game away a bit. Isnt this the standard resentment of your imagined persecutors, those you imagine are excluding you? I'm probably wrong but I can't help but feel there is a disconnect between his politics and his act--he just wants to hurt those people who he imagined hurt him.

Labour Youth have done a very good job recruiting immigrant youth the past 10 years or so (there weren't so many back in the 90s when I was active there), so I would guess a fair percentage of his victimes were actually immigrants. Not that it seems he went after them in particular though.

what do you think the political consequences for this will be? (do you think a historic labour landslide is in the future?) do you think gun control laws may drastically change?

do you think gun control laws may drastically change?

i was trying to work out what someone would need an automatic weapon for today. anyone?

do you think gun control laws may drastically change?

I'm waiting for the American gun nuts to launch into their standard issue spiel (this may have already happened, I've been away from news sources for much of last night and today) about how if only more people carried guns this guy would have been stopped well before he killed so many.

we need video game control

I dunno if it's trite or stupid to say it, but my strongest impulse with guys like this and say, the London bombings, is to think they're totally intellectually bankrupt as well as morally. I feel like there's a modern brand of utterly egotistical moron that does this shit, and it's not evil that should be being discussed rather than how utterly thick these guys are. You watch this guy's YouTube vid and it's like "EUR-ABIAN UNION" and you can't help but feel it's just a total fucking amoeba who self aggrandises violent tendencies into some sort of world view. Maybe it feels better to say people are dumb rather than evil, but I'd personally like if this was admitted more. I feel too much credit is given to these guys, it's not a political statement, it's some totally dumb full of himself sociopathic moron. I really believe that.

do you think gun control laws may drastically change?

They did here (Aus) when this last happened here (Martin Bryant)

beautiful speech by the prime minister saddened me, not just b/c of its content, but b/c i can't imagine any american president ever approaching it. and even if they did, they would still insist on throwing in some cowboy talk about the need for swift retribution or whatever

I'm not sure thats really fair wrt to an American president, considering they've already apprehended the suspect here. I don't think Obama engaged in any "cowboy talk" after the Arizona shootings. Not at all the same scale, but still.

He sure did when campaigning! And revisited when Osama was found.

well killing osama is not the same as having 90 people die in a massacre

if the norwegian president somehow found and killed osama he'd prob have a little cowboy in him for a day or two

He sure did when campaigning! And revisited when Osama was found.

I was specifically referring to the speech he gave after the Arizona shootings which, while not at all comparable in terms of scale or impact, was similar in that the suspect had already been taken into custody by the time it came to political speeches. I never inferred that Obama had never taken part. Just seemed like a cheap shot "lol @ dumb cowboy Americans" type of joke.

yeah, i think jon is otm

Overgeneraliztion, yes.

Just seemed like a cheap shot "lol @ dumb cowboy Americans" type of joke.

wasn't a "cheap shot" or a joke, or anything about americans being "dumb". it's more about a mentality that i think exists here and results in the fact that if an american leader were to express some of the ideas that were in Stotenberg's speech, or if they delivered it with similar emotion, i feel like they would end up being called a pussy or something along those lines

but mainly expressing my frustration that some other countries have adults for leaders whereas judging by the debt ceiling fiasco and a whole bunch of other crap we seem to mostly have infants holding things down

really agree with, of all people, boris johnson on this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/8658872/Anders-Breivik-There-is-nothing-to-study-in-the-mind-of-Norways-mass-killer.html

Michael Ryan had no ideology in Hungerford; Thomas Hamilton had no ideology in Dunblane. To try to advance any other explanation for their actions – to try to advance complicated "social" factors, or to examine the impact of multiculturalism in Scandinavia – is simply to play their self-important game. Anders Breivik may have constructed a portentous 1,500 page manifesto, but like so many others of his type he was essentially a narcissist and egomaniac who could not cope with being snubbed. We should spend less time thinking about him, and much more on the victims and their families.

"The Norwegian anti-Islamic citizen journalist website Document.no, to which Mr Breivik himself was a frequent contributor, has said large parts of his "compendium" are copied directly from US "Unabomber" Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. Six of the references to the British National Party are from a Melanie Phillips article in Britain's Daily Mail about Labour, immigration and the BNP, which he appears to have cut and pasted into the document."

So now we know who reads Melanie Phillips' columns

He's being brought into court to the judge right now. The correspondent of Dutch radio is bemused: she and her colleagues can just walk in and out the building freely. No checking of bags or ID, nothing, no extra security measures or policemen separating the suspect from other people...

This OP/ED re: Oslo in The Jerusalem Post is mind-boggling. Just awful.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Editorials/Article.aspx?id=230788

^^ Shameless and awful op/ed. Jeez.

Perhaps Brievik’s inexcusable act of vicious terror should serve not only as a warning that there may be more elements on the extreme Right willing to use violence to further their goals, but also as an opportunity to seriously reevaluate policies for immigrant integration in Norway and elsewhere.

confusing 'let's learn from this' with 'let's listen to what this guy is saying'

Death toll revised to 8 (Oslo bombing), 68 (Utoeya shootings).

how did so few people die in the bombings? i mean, the devastation looked major but 8 people? i can't really get my head around it, esp in a city at what, 1600 on Friday afternoon?

Apparently, hard working Northern Europeans that they are, Norwegians are wont to go home early of a Friday... so much for the Protestant work ethic!

iirc it was a national holiday

disgrace, i was in work till 7 on friday. how i suffered.

Obviously if it had been in Britain, where we idiots are worked till we drop, there would have been carnage

was the bomb solely to distract before the shootings then? given his talk of wanting such a high death toll would seem a stroke of luck he chose or had to choose to set the bomb off at a time when nobody was around.

I'm sure I heard that the bombing was a diversionary tactic and the Youth Camp was his main target

the shooting was timed to happen on the day of the former prime minister's visit (then he was 'delayed' and missed her, apparently)

Wasn't his 'aliby' to dress up as a cop and come to the island because he wanted to speak to the youths about the bombing?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14275981

"It's one of the scariest documents I've ever read," Dr Stephen said.

"It's written by a man who's absolutely meticulous in his development of his philosophy and he's researched everything, obviously shut away for a long period of time reading, researching, digging into the internet, reading books and formulated this absolute policy of hatred of anything that is Nordic in a sense and looking at planning how to take over the world totally converted in a sort of very rather insane over-complicated deluded manner."

WTF. Really articulate expert there, well done all. Talk about people in glasshouses, nice ironic vibe from the doc's own words appearing like the rantings of a mad man.

Dr Nult more like...

I wonder if this guy was a country music fan lol

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201107250006

OF COURSE

'geert wilders is the politican out of denmark'

Kind of imagine the first draft of Glenn Beck's books land on the editor's desk as a 1500 page manuscript with large sections plagiarised from the Unabomber.

I wonder if this guy was a country music fan lol

Classical music and vocal trance iirc?

150,000 people quietly gathered today in central Oslo in memory of the victims and as a show of solidarity against terror. Many more thousands around the rest of the country.

http://static.vg.no/uploaded/image/bilderigg/2011/07/25/1311613249899_255.jpg

I have just spent 30 minutes shaking my head; it's like the only response I can muster to the Beck nonsense

Islamophobia and mass murder

Good ol' Steyn. Lots of misdirection going around from a bunch of people these past couple of days. Idly wondering what would happen if Brevnik or whoever called 'em in as a character witness.