The official thread for Lord Of The Rings - The Return Of The King [LOTR ROTK TROTK ROK] (NOW CONTAINS SPOILERS)

There were pacing issues and the lengthy endings (whilst cock on for the book) dragged a touch. Also odd that Arwen didn't want to see her Dad off on the boat. There also seemed something a bit off with Gollum at the end, I always remember him being a bit satisfied with his own death / destruction of the ring which did not quite come across (the perilous escape from the cracks seems a little bit overblown too).

All in all though thoroughly satisfying.

I remember this being such a powerful moment in the book. I haven't seen the clip yet and was hoping this was going to be included in the final film. Yes, NOW I really want to watch it!!!

Can't wait to see it.

Lego-lass on the oilyfunt was the best

the Theodyn/Gandalf "what does your heart tell you?" line was the BAD Star Wars ref

has no-one mentioned how fucking great the 360 degress pans were?

fear not Madchen, the Shelob bits are absolutely stunning

the ghosts reminded me a lot of POTC more than anything else - i thought they were fine

biggest irk = no Saruman

when Aragorn and everyone kneel down before the hobbits for a split second i 'wished' it would cut to the fanfare end theme and the 'Directed by George Lucas' caption on starfield, haha

also very annoyed that we got trailers for the new Farrelly Brothers film (OH DEAR GOD IT LOOKS SO FUCKING TERRIBLE I WANT TO PUNCH THOSE STUPID PEOPLE) and the new Mask film (it's a baby.....a BABY.....) but not Spiderman 2 or that one with JUde Law and Nicole Kidman which might be good

has no-one mentioned how fucking great the 360 degress pans were?

Damn straight. Aimed for the epic and nailed it.

More coherent thoughts later tonight, though I'll probably chime in more throughout the day.

I meant the latter more, but the Smeagol origin I wasn't crazy about; something about the way it was shot made it seem a little awkward to me (maybe because most of it was in close-up). also, when Smeagol's buddy gets pulled underwater I thought it looked pretty silly.

I thought the whole sequence worked even better second time around -- the way it's edited and presented (and narrated for that matter) goes against much of the film style elsewhere, it nicely conveys a sense of how Gollum isn't part of/much for the world if you like. As for the close-ups, that's been a hallmark of all three movies, surely -- most of the sequence itself was directed by Fran Walsh.

You mean at the start of the film? At the end of Two Towers it shows the two of them embracing and being thankful for getting through Helm's Deep in one piece, so in ways that moment had already happened, if you like.

I guess travelling sequences woulda made the whole thing even longer though (though I guess they wouldn't have to)

of course it wz terrific, fite-wise especially

they exactly didn't go with my personal reading of gollum's triumph over sauron, but it wasn't ruled out either

(oh yes: when sauron's eye turned north to the gates of mordor, it was actually turning from north-ish to east, unless they moved orodruin)

Maybe by way of Rocketeer and the Blackhawk comics. I'm a sucker for art-deco steampunk, so I'll probably go see it even though I expect it to thoroughly suck.

The next Pitch Black film, Chronicles of Riddick(should I see the first one?)

Ehhhhh... A couple of good scenes, but mostly crap.

he kinda sorta intends to fall into the cracks of doom cz that way no one else gets it - there's a bit in the book, in the gollum vs smeagol dialogues, where one of them says something (i completely forget what at the moment) which wd be of relevance in re: intentionality at that point

Yeah, they were playing around with that more than once! Maybe Barad-dur's secret power lies in the fact it's the biggest and most badass trailerpark home ever.

plus

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
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oh, yes haha also: sauron's eye = activity out of a tex avery cartoon once everything goes wrong!

end SPOILERS

I liked the sense of scale and comparitive scale, so when the Rohirrim arrive at Minas Tirith you can see both that they have an enormous army and that they're complete fucked.

The dead are the Ents of this film. Much as they are in the book, in fairness.

I'm looking forward to the DVD, with more Saruman and Bruce Spence as the Voice of Sauron.

The ending was both quite long and much shorter than it could have been. It and the scenes outside Mount Doom do keep the sense of "normal folk don't always come back from war the same".

And it keeps what's probably my favourite last line in any book.

Heckle #1: I liked the look of disgust Theoden gives Aragorn when he left him alone with Arwen. I turned to my friend and whispered "Elf-fucker!". This was only improved by it turning out to be Elrond :)

Heckle #2: After Frodo says goodbye to Sam and turns to Pippin "Which one are you again?"

Yes!!! Actually Mordor = one giant Tex Avery wolf :

gate opening = jaw dropping
orkish hordes = tongue rolling out
the eye popping = well ditto
volcano eruption = grannie mallet action

I absolutely loved the movie; Jackson's still getting (let's say) no less than 70% of everything right (where even getting 50% right would be astonishing); I probably respect even more of the various elision/alteration decisions (even those I disagree with.)

(that said)

Denethor is a completely different fucking character; I guess they wanted to distinguish him more from Saruman and Gandalf (which is to miss the fucking point), but making him a petty pathetic dickhead idiot was just stupid, and I can't see what else it achieved (while sacrificing so much). Connected and similar is the baffling cut of all the palantir stuff. (Given what's left, I can't see why they even bothered.) Holdover criticism from TT: flying Nazgul steeds still seem like they'd be better as vulture-pteradactyl things than dragony things. Witch-king should, alas, be cooler and scarier. Tex Avery eye OTM. Apparent Watchers set-up with no payoff disappointing, all of Cirith Ungol a shade too cursory and not scary enough. The pacing/elastic distances thing is fucked-up (most glaring: for all the time wasted doing nothing or saying goodbye for the 20th time, the Captains of the West sure get to the Black Gate fast--same deal with emptying of Gorgoroth). Personally saddened by elision of Mouth of Sauron. Too much Sam, and almost no 'alpha' end to Frodo's arc (especially a shame at the end). Ultimately I suspect the weakest of the three.

(but still)

Minas Morgul: perfectperfectperfect!!!! Shelob's lair damn good. Cracks of Doom really really nice. Glimpse of Narya lovely. Eowyn, Eomer, Theoden, Merry, whole Rohirrim plot strand = awesome. Paths of the Dead take a little different, indeed a little Pirates of the Caribbean-y, but totally worked, totally great. Minas Tirith, mountains, hell all of Gondor fucking unbelievably gorgeous and OTM. Best movie for Gimli. Legolas 'set piece,' oliphaunts, Hoth tribute supercool. Fall of Witch-king, Barad-dur kick-ass. Pippin = best hobbit in show. Mortenson and esp. Serkis and McKellen terrific. Maybe too much battle-sequence-after-battle-sequence, but they all look and play soso right. Sososo much killer stuff going on in every frame, way more than I could catch the first time through; staggering regardless, FUCK ME for picking nits.

so

Back to the theater!

As I noted, I have not seen the third part of the film yet. I pray that I am yet proven
wrong!

Good Points:
1) Best battle scenes EVAH! ("I see your rock throwing catapults, and we'll raise you a trebuchet that can hurl a Winnebago!")
2) Oliphants and Dragonriders and Shelob, Oh My!
3) Set design is still excellent.
4) Same with costume and prop design.
5) Not as tear-jerkingly hammy as the first movie. It's all 3 1/2 hours of ass-kicking.

Bad Points:
1) No Christopher Lee at all.
2) Maudlin, overlong denouvement.