Going To Law School

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jenny, your advice is so good.
i thought of going to law school right out of undergrad - and got in - but circumstances intervened and i did other things - but my intuition about law school was that it wasn't what i really wanted anyway. so i went on adventures and worked and then went to grad school, which i knew i really wanted to do, and now i am doing things i never thought i'd do (in a great band, making art, reading foucault for pleasure.) go with your gut, man.

― rrrobyn, the situation (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 15:36 (nineteen years ago)

I comfort myself with the possibility of getting an MLS and leading a quiet life as a research librarian in a law library somewhere, surrounded by books and hushed voices.

ahahahahaha

― Mary (Mary), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 23:08 (nineteen years ago)

Quiet, you. Stay out of my happy place.

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 23:30 (nineteen years ago)

Ha, I'm sure it's much less demanding and more pleasant than lawyering, but I just got back from a conference where they outlined a lot of the "challenges" facing law libraries: decreased funding, less need for books (with most sources licensed electronically), and the fact that, often, when you are asked a question, it's really hard, because the person has already checked the obvious places, which is easier to do now. Also academic librarianship (from what I can tell) seems to involve a lot of commitees and schmoozing. But, I've met a lot of people who went to law school and weren't happy with law, got their MLS and have been able to do really well (seemingly) in the academic law library field.

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 00:21 (nineteen years ago)

BTW rabbit, are you by any chance the same rabbitrabbit that posts on JCList? If so, we're practically neighbors.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 00:28 (nineteen years ago)

how old are you?

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 00:34 (nineteen years ago)

26, why?

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 00:36 (nineteen years ago)

Nope, I don't post on JCLIst. I'm a Chicagoerite.

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 01:01 (nineteen years ago)

just curious. i went to law school at 25. also a drummer in a band, like yourself.

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 01:01 (nineteen years ago)

didn't you just get married? if wifey making you do this?

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 01:02 (nineteen years ago)

is wifey

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 01:05 (nineteen years ago)

Ha.

She's not *making* me do anything, but she keeps saying stuff like "You're so good at this stuff. You love to argue and over-analyze things. Why don't you just do it?" as though it were all as easy as taking the LSAT. So here I am going to ILX for back-up.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 01:09 (nineteen years ago)

you should warn her that she won't see you too often for the next three years. i've pretty much moved in to the library.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 03:10 (nineteen years ago)

I'm already not seeing her much for the next two years thanks to the combination masters degree/public school teaching program she's in (NY Teaching Fellows)

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 03:11 (nineteen years ago)

so can you afford to have both of you studying at the same time? the other thing that's utterly shite about going back to uni as a mature-ager is relinquishing full time pay....

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 03:13 (nineteen years ago)

No, she gets paid teachers' salary and gets a free degree. Still, wouldn't exactly be fun both of us trying to live on that in the New York area.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 03:15 (nineteen years ago)

Not to mention that for the first time we actually make a good combined salary, so giving it up would be hard.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 03:22 (nineteen years ago)

it's definitely something that's important to consider - law school is really hard, you don't want to have to worry about other stuff while you're doing it. i worked two jobs for over a year (and studied part time) to save up before coming back full time... and still worked 3 days a week the last two years, i'm feeling pretty knackered at this stage (only 6 weeks to go!). but I don't think i could have coped otherwise. and i live in a relatively cheap city.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 03:26 (nineteen years ago)

you live in new jersey

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 03:52 (nineteen years ago)

I am so glad that I'm never going to go to law school.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 04:05 (nineteen years ago)

Law school isn't so much "hard" as it just isn't a place for people who are lazy and just used to sailing on their good looks and charm. If you're not willing to keep up with reading as a baseline, you're fucked.

I have enjoyed reading the theories as to how easy it is to get a job, how unimportant grades are, and how the practice of law is from people who are still students, though. How enlightening. I'll enjoy your updates upon graduation, and during your job search.

Being a lawyer may make you bitter.

― lawmclawlaw (allie b), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 18:13 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, also, starting labor-side lawyers at certain firms in Chicago make about 70k, so that's considerably more than being working the poverty law angle...or even the 34k you'd make as an AAG. Okay, I'm finished.

― lawmclawlaw (allie b), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 18:17 (nineteen years ago)

?? not sure whose posts you read mr/ms law. i have found law really hard, and i consider myself reasonably intelligent. but i don't think i ever expected to sail through on good looks/charm, and i guess i was fortunate enough to fall into rabbitrabbit's no 1 category... i'll be handing in my honours thesis next friday. having clerked at several australian top tiers during my studies, i've already commenced as an associate at the supreme court. so i feel like i have some idea of what it takes to get through law school. might have been a different story if i were in the US of course.

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 28 September 2006 00:37 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, also, starting labor-side lawyers at certain firms in Chicago make about 70k

I'm sure some do, but I woudn't say that's a given - the firm where I clerk starts associates at $50k. You are absolutely correct that $70,000 is more than $34,000, though.

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Thursday, 28 September 2006 01:34 (nineteen years ago)

Are most of the high income lawyer positions best suited for go-getters? Do any law gigs -- not so much lucrative 6-figure salaries but gigs with respectable pay (however you define "respectable") -- pace themselves more slowly (i.e. don't have to bill certain hours per week), like, say, copyright law, about which I know nothing? My guess: No.

― c('°c) (Leee), Thursday, 28 September 2006 16:55 (nineteen years ago)

Work for the government. It's pretty much 9-5, or at least not 24/7. I imagine you would start out around $60ish? Not high flying, but not too shabby either, assuming you don't have major debt.

― Mary (Mary), Thursday, 28 September 2006 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

Landing into a top firm and making 130k or so is fucking tough. You have to go to a top 10 school, get good grades and have an impeccable resume. Then you have to interview/summer at various firms which is basically like rushing at a fraternity. All the associates have no lives outside of work, so new hires are basically like interviewing new friend candidates.

Bottom line - go to top 10 school, be in top 25-10% of your class, schmooze hard, get posh job in posh firm, work 70 hours a week monday through sunday.

― Stuh-du-du-du-du-du-du-denka (jingleberries), Thursday, 28 September 2006 17:30 (nineteen years ago)

$60K-something is pretty much the starting salary for fed gov't lawyers. i know this for a fact, b/c i keep batting around the idea of applying for work at the IRS or the PBGC.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 28 September 2006 17:33 (nineteen years ago)

It's pretty tough to get a government job, at least in the experience of people I know. Even tougher to get one straight out of school. If you want to work for the government and are still in law school, make damn sure you work for an agency (if not the exact agency you're interested in) while you're in school.

No billable hours? Dare to dream. Billable hours can eat me.

― lawmclawlaw (allie b), Thursday, 28 September 2006 21:00 (nineteen years ago)

My sister worked for corporate for 5 years then moved into a job with city goverment. She's recently taken a different job within the same city government. She finds it vastly preferable to corporate law, though sometimes has pangs of regret for the money she could be making, if only she'd stayed miserable.

― Mary (Mary), Thursday, 28 September 2006 21:53 (nineteen years ago)

I went to law school 2 years after undergrad, did middlingly well, managed to get a state appellate court clerkship for a few years, went into small private practice for 3 years, and now I'm back at the law school, working as a staff attorney for a children's rights project. I've had good experiences all the way, but I'm never going to get rich.

Don't go to law school for the money unless you're willing to work insanely long hours both during and after you graduate and are willing to do work for clients that you might find distasteful and make arguments you might find equally distasteful.

― J (Jay), Thursday, 28 September 2006 22:17 (nineteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

http://ww3.lawschool.cornell.edu/faculty-pages/wendel/Torts_files/gordonarticle.pdf

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Friday, 13 October 2006 18:30 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...

I got a 170, but I don't think I'm going to apply this year.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 22:10 (nineteen years ago)

So to revive this thread for the 100th time... "Don't go to law school if you don't be a lawyer or have a burning interest in the law" seems sound advice, but still not enough to get me off the fence one way or the other. I don't have a passion for Teh Law. I do have an interest in certain areas of public international law, but I worry that that's not the best practice area to pay off the crushing debt that would await me.

I also fear that my interest may be too academic, if that makes sense. At times that makes me consider legal academia as an option. I know from previous grad school that I have the temperament for acedemic work, and my exposure to legal scholarship gives me the (possibly false) impression that it favors a wider-ranging and more interdisciplinary approach than other quarters of the academy. But is the job market as dire as in the humanities/social sciences? And is the choice between practice and scholarship one I'd have to make in my first year of school? Please to make my life decisions for me, ILE.

― xtof (xtof), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 06:47 (nineteen years ago)

choosing between practise and scholarship wouldn't have to happen in your first year but i suspect it would be an advantage to choose before you finish your degree, because it would influence your choice of subjects.

there might be more choices than just practise or academia if you are interested in black letter law, which i suppose is what you mean about the academic interest. for example, you might look for work at whatever organisation drafts legislation in your country, or the local law reform commission, or go into some kind of legislative policy type work. i have just commenced as an associate to a supreme court judge and it is ALL scholarly stuff. which is cool and completely different to what my mates in firms are doing.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:33 (nineteen years ago)

Please to make my life decisions for me, ILE

Become a law librarian. Get a joint J.D./M.L.S. and work in an academic law library.

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:34 (nineteen years ago)

Not a bad idea -- the money's good, but the clientele sucks.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:50 (nineteen years ago)

i worked in our uni's law library during my degree. i thought the clientele were tops on the whole. maybe that's cos lots of them were my mates and i got along well with the academics. always some annoying blow ins though.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 23:51 (nineteen years ago)

I worry that that's not the best practice area to pay off the crushing debt that would await me.

Some schools have tuition repayment programs that help you A LOT with your debt if you choose public interest or something low-paying. You should look into this more if debt is the only thing keeping you from doing it.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 23:54 (nineteen years ago)

gem -- no, it's because you had a Uni clientele, not a bunch of lawyers.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 23 November 2006 08:48 (nineteen years ago)

three months pass...

Belated questions for those of you recommending the paralegal taste-test. What's the best way to go about getting these positions, because most of the paralegal positions I’ve noted on firms' sites seem to require at least two years experience. And, are there specific firms that are good for this in the Philadelphia/Princeton area (since it’s already been brought up).

― paper.prentice, Sunday, 25 February 2007 21:22 (nineteen years ago)

in oz you get paralegal work easiest by pimping yourself to law firms' HR sections. they love all that 'initiative' 'self-starter' nonsense

― gem, Sunday, 25 February 2007 22:24 (nineteen years ago)

three months pass...

Funny to read my old posts on this thread. I think I'm already in a pretty different mental place than I was 1-2 years ago. Still thinking law school - Fall 2008 at this point - but feeling less entangled with other peoples' ideas of what I should do and more able to sort it out for myself. Starting to think music/entertainment/IP law might be a good field and have been speaking to a few people who have done it.

One question - I have a 170 LSAT from last year and not very good grades (though I'll be 5+ years out of school when I apply). I know I didn't do my best (I scored 175 on my last practice test, and I think I could prepare more than I did) - should I retake the LSAT or is it not worth it?

― Hurting 2, Sunday, 10 June 2007 20:01 (nineteen years ago)

170 is good

― cutty, Sunday, 10 June 2007 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I'm just wondering if I should try to edge up a few points to help make up for my bad grades

― Hurting 2, Sunday, 10 June 2007 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

i'm not sure you want a better score

― gabbneb, Monday, 11 June 2007 04:40 (nineteen years ago)

You mean it won't do me any good? Or you mean you don't think I really want it?

― Hurting 2, Monday, 11 June 2007 04:44 (nineteen years ago)

i mean it might even hurt your chances

― gabbneb, Monday, 11 June 2007 04:45 (nineteen years ago)

i might depend on what you mean by 'bad grades' tho

― gabbneb, Monday, 11 June 2007 04:46 (nineteen years ago)

2.9

― Hurting 2, Monday, 11 June 2007 04:49 (nineteen years ago)

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