Katrina's POLITICAL aftermath (keep the political discussions HERE)

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Nah Ned it wasn't Jonah. The writer is respecting my Not For Pub request so Imma respect her privacy too on this.

LeCoq (LeCoq), Friday, 2 September 2005 13:51 (twenty years ago)

Given that Bush is on record as sneering at the idea of reading the newspaper and most of the government follows the President's lead, is it really a shock to anyone that officials in high places wouldn't be informed as to what has been going on?

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Friday, 2 September 2005 13:53 (twenty years ago)

Helen Thomas was one of the loveliest people I've ever had the pleasure of speaking with and you really didn't need to bring that situation up and give me ANOTHER reason to be really, really hateful and violent towards people working, oh, maybe 20 blocks from where I am right now. I mean unless you want me to lead a militia army into the capitol building and take hostages.

HARRY CONNICK JR. can get to the Convention Center to help. ANDERSON COOPER and TUCKER CARLSON can access all of these areas. Fuck, ARTHEL NEVEL OF A CURRENT AFFAIR can access all of these areas. I mean, I know I'm just venting at this point but we have half a mind to head down there ourselves loaded with supplies this weekend, because it's pretty fucking obvious that no one in the government went on, like, Yahoo! Maps and got directions to New Orleans or Biloxi, cos they ain't getting near it. Maybe they got their directions from Google Maps, those ones were confusin looking.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Friday, 2 September 2005 13:53 (twenty years ago)

ah fuck goldberg, has he ever even been to new orleans? does he have any idea how fucked city government/services are? nagin should be given a medal just for trying, imo. i mean, shit, just reporting something to the police way before katrina was a fucking mess-and-a-half (speaking from the experience i had there on tour in 2003).

xpost - maura otm. ned, dude, you really pay way too much attention to that guy than he actually deserves.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 2 September 2005 13:56 (twenty years ago)

At least it looks like Condoleeza Rice's chance of being President is fucked

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Friday, 2 September 2005 13:56 (twenty years ago)

...he AP had to let her go.

naw she worked for upi, i thought.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 2 September 2005 13:57 (twenty years ago)

The trolls are out in force on interdictor's blog, mostly taking jabs at him for his macho ex-military man posturing, which I too find to be kind of disgusting. I kind of hate the "I'm gonna get my gun and straighten out all those looters mentality". Kind of a dick. I hate survivalist egotists.

Fushigina Blobby: Blobania no Kiki (ex machina), Friday, 2 September 2005 13:58 (twenty years ago)

"Just moments ago at the Ferragamo on 5th Avenue, Condoleeza Rice was seen spending several thousands of dollars on some nice, new shoes (we’ve confirmed this, so her new heels will surely get coverage from the WaPo’s Robin Givhan). A fellow shopper, unable to fathom the absurdity of Rice’s timing, went up to the Secretary and reportedly shouted, “How dare you shop for shoes while thousands are dying and homeless!” Never one to have her fashion choices questioned, Rice had security PHYSICALLY REMOVE the woman."

Gallows humor a go-go!

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Friday, 2 September 2005 13:58 (twenty years ago)

The thing is, like, they wouldn't let non-FEMA authorized people in the area, you know? So it's like you'd get so far and then they'd be like, go home, it's "too dangerous."

It's just that I was watching the local news here in DC last night, and some police department here (forget which county) got a phone call from an official in New Orleans, asking if they can help with supplies and efforts, so of course they said yes, loaded up trucks with gatorade and food and stuff, and then made the mistake of trying to go through FEMA to get approval to go down there. They were still waiting as of newscast last night, because FEMA was WAITING FOR A WRITTEN REQUEST TO COME IN FROM NEW ORLEANS GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS.

OH RIGHT LET ME JUST FAX THAT TO YOU RIGHT NOW. Douchebags.

xpost OK I mean I just xposted a ton, this Condi Rice thing is getting kind of stupid

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

BBC man Matt Frei's exact quote
"It is total mayhem. I have been to many disaster zones in Asia and a few in Africa and I must say considering the resources available here and all the rhetoric we've heard from Washington the situation here is much worse than comparable situations for these sort of crises in the Third world. It is quite frankly an indictment."

H (Heruy), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:02 (twenty years ago)

actually, you all remember the "My Pet Goat" thing? How El Doofus froze for like 7+ minutes before trying to figure out what the fuck was going on? I think we're seeing the exact same phenomenon, only at an Administration-wide scale.

Mel Brooks was prescient:

Sandurz, Sandurz! You got to help me! I don't know what to do! I can't make decisions! I'm a president!


I'm just waiting for certain low-level govt employees to go, "You know what? Fuck you and your official requests. We're heading out there now with this gear and you can fire me all you want when i get back. People are fuckin' dying."

kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

xpost OK I mean I just xposted a ton, this Condi Rice thing is getting kind of stupid

It's like she's completely lost her mind after getting her hair done. "National emergency? Bump that; I need to get some pumps that make my bangin' coiffe pop!"

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

From Digby:
This event is emblematic of Republican governance. It encompasses every fuck-up they've perpetrated since they took over the entire national governament --- failure to plan, embracing only the best case scenario, lagging response, ignoring the experts, slashing funds and endless, endless happy talk that we can SEE WITH OUR OWN EYES is bullshit. (They are already saying that nobody is reporting all the "good news.")

The fact that most of these refugees (a word that I can hardly believe I'm typing) are black and poor residents who were unable to leave and were therefore, left to die, is emblematic also.

No, this is all about politics. It is about a GOP era of massive tax breaks for very rich Americans, billion dollar a week elective wars that we are losing while more and more people fall into poverty and the infrastructure of this country crumbles around our ears.

This failed experiment in free-market magical thinking can be summed up entirely by pictures of dead elderly Americans on the streets of New Orleans.


man, dead on about the "good news" bit.

kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

There's 'good news'? I must have missed it when I was having a slash.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:12 (twenty years ago)

The good news = WHEW FATS DOMINO IS SAVED NOW WE CAN GO BACK TO IGNORING THE INCONVENIENT DARKIES

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:12 (twenty years ago)

no, i mean that some Admin types are talking about how "the good news isn't being reported."

kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:13 (twenty years ago)

Oh yeah, Fats Domino, shame about his wife and daughter dying, best not to mention that.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:15 (twenty years ago)

I'm just waiting for certain low-level govt employees to go, "You know what? Fuck you and your official requests. We're heading out there now with this gear and you can fire me all you want when i get back. People are fuckin' dying."

Yeah, exactly. I mean this doesn't make good sense, why is the paper trail this important right now? I mean, official requests? You can see with your own two eyes, turning on a television, that, OK, if these people COULD fax you an official, notarized, signed by everyone necessary BLAH BLAH BLAH request, they WOULD, but you know what? I bet they got other shit going down to be thinking about besides trying to, like, find some paper, write on it, and fax a request to FEMA. It just strikes me that, hi, paperwork, that can be done after the fact. I mean every workplace I've ever worked for has understood this, special circumstances require bending of the rules. Sometimes, you know, you have to get the person's credit card after the fact. Sometimes, you know, you gotta get that letter a year later because, like, THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE NOW, NOT THREE DAYS FROM NOW.

It's insanity, the complete level of...disinterest the Capitol has for this situation.

XPOST I didn't even know Fats Domino was still alive until I found out he was rescued!!! I watched 12 Monkeys a few nights ago and have had Blueberry Hill in my head off and on since then, so it was kind of a relief to find out that he didn't actually die 20 years ago as I had assumed!

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:15 (twenty years ago)

meanwhile:

What's that proverb? Every crisis is an opportunity? AP this morning: "President Bush has used a constitutional provision to bypass the Senate and fill a top Justice Department slot with an official whose nomination stalled over tactics at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, naval facility."

OUR PREZNIT: GETTIN SHIT DONE

maura (maura), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:16 (twenty years ago)

temporary FEMA jobs

Fushigina Blobby: Blobania no Kiki (ex machina), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:17 (twenty years ago)

another Rude Pundit bit

But the Bush adminstration has broken the basic social contract in New Orleans, the one that goes all the way back to Thomas Hobbes and John Locke, the one that says we adhere to laws because you agree to protect us, and thus the city and its citizens have returned to the state of nature, which is to survive, motherfuckers, just survive.

and other bits about hipsters going to black clubs in a never-ending search for "authenticity" etc, El Doofus coming down and "[you] can bet he's gonna hug some negro, maybe two, maybe he'll feed a negro child."

kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:18 (twenty years ago)

snopes on AP racism:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:21 (twenty years ago)

ned, dude, you really pay way too much attention to that guy than he actually deserves.

Stepping aside from Katrina specifically for a moment:

Y'all think *I* do that? What about all the feebs who watch him and nod their head approvingly even when he slips up, self-contradicts, begs forgiveness? *They're* the ones I'm worried about, and they're why I want to see what the mouthpieces say.

For myself, I've realized that the function of a lot of political commentary that I do agree with is to reassure me -- to say, "There there -- whether we're angry or just simply calling it 'like it is,' this way you can be reassured you are not alone, and we can all be comfortable at least in being right." This applies across the political spectrum. Well, I don't want to be reassured -- rather, I want to be annoyed, on guard, wary, suspicious. NRO's blog may be neocon fast food but it gives off a stench of the darker rot within.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:21 (twenty years ago)

why did Americans in the South vote in such a Clown as Bush?

DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:22 (twenty years ago)

god bless the rude pundit

maura (maura), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:23 (twenty years ago)

xpost-
because he's gonna abolish the "death tax". Yay.

Draw Tipsy, ya hack. (dave225.3), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:26 (twenty years ago)

A friend of a friend's Cuban acquaintance's summary of disaster mitigation, Castro-style (obv you could tie this in with authoritarian 'efficiency,' but surely we could manage some of the same w/out a Supreme Leader):


less than 2 months ago, cuba was able to move 1.7 million people on
short notice.

the whole civil defense is embedded in the community to begin with.
people know ahead of time where they are to go.

they come to your door and knock, and tell you, evacuation is coming,
then they come and tell you, now.

if no electricity, they have runners who communicate from a headquarters to central locations what is to be done.

the country's leaders go on TV and take charge. but not only the leaders are speaking. the TV weatherpeople are knowledgeable. and the population is well educated about hurricanes.

they not only evacuate. it's arranged beforehand where they will go, who has family where. not only pickup is organized, delivery of people is organized.

merely sticking them in a stadium is unthinkable. shelters all have
medical personnel, from the neighborhood. they have family doctors in
cuba (!), who evacuate together with the neighborhood, and already know who, for example, needs insulin.

if they evacuate to a countryside high school -- a last resort -- they
have dormitories there.

they also have veterinarians and they evacuate animals. they begin
evacuating immediately, and also evacuate TV sets and refrigerators, so that people aren't relucatant to leave because people might steal their stuff.

it's not throwing money at the problem. it's not financial capital, it's social capital. the u.s. in this sense has zero social capital.

dealing with hurricanes in cuba, as compared with how it's done in the
u.s., is similar to the differences in how they deal with medicine. it's not reactive; it's proactive. they act as early as possible. the u.s. doesn't have civil defense, it has civil *reaction.*

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:27 (twenty years ago)

the u.s. in this sense has zero social capital.
That is becoming more and more apparent every day of my adult life, and it's depressing.. and sickening.

Draw Tipsy, ya hack. (dave225.3), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:30 (twenty years ago)

is Dick Cheney still on vacation?

also, apparently the "Freedom Walk"/Pro-War Rally is still on!

why did Americans in the South vote in such a Clown as Bush?

remember everything that me and plenty others here and elsewhere about how people aren't all that rational in their voting patterns, that narratives("bush is a strong silent, man-of-the-people-on-his-ranch") matter far more than actual reality? or, that "facts don't trump frameworks," as George Lakoff once wrote?

kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

Altho, in all of this, Clinton said something once as a ray of hope:

"There's nothing wrong about America that can't be fixed by what's right about America."

kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:39 (twenty years ago)

Bush's photo-op/back-slapping w/Coast Guard (paraphrasing):

"Imagine the Gulf Coast obliterated by the worst weapon imaginable."

No, that would be nuclear weapons, which you... ah, nevermind.

Andy_K (Andy_K), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

I mean, I know I'm just venting at this point but we have half a mind to head down there ourselves loaded with supplies this weekend, because it's pretty fucking obvious that no one in the government went on, like, Yahoo! Maps and got directions to New Orleans or Biloxi, cos they ain't getting near it. Maybe they got their directions from Google Maps, those ones were confusin looking.

I tried to volunteer for the Capital City Area Red Cross for volunteer work in Katrina just now and the site's not even coming up at times. When I finally got to the page for signing up, they had some sort of error and the online form I filled out with my contact info didn't go through. I tried twice more and it still faltered. Fuck. I'll have to try it again later today, if it's working. I can't get through on the phone, either, and I haven't found information as to where the office is.

Ian Riese-Moraine: a casualty of society's derangement. (Eastern Mantra), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:46 (twenty years ago)

The cycles of history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mississippi_Flood_of_1927

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:56 (twenty years ago)

the u.s. in this sense has zero social capital.

yeah well, again, the ruling conservative ideology doesn't believe in social capital. They don't believe in much of anything with the words "social" or "public" in them. The whole idea of the social contract -- which is arguably one of the two or three most important ideas underpinning democratic self-government -- is in their view part of the "problem." This is already showing up in the right-wing commentary: the problem isn't government's failure to respond, it's peoples' expectation that government will respond. The answer is not more or better government, it's less and worse government, to teach people not to be so "dependent."

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:04 (twenty years ago)

xpost gypsy: i would make one addendum re social capital - the right bemoans the loss of social capital (Robert Putnam, Bowling Alone) while simultaneously dismantling the very structures that maintain vibrant civil society (I can't forget how Putnam asserted that people all of the sudden "stopped" joining unions, completely denying the impact of Taft-Hartley and unionbusting ramp-ups as evidence of this trend toward atomized society).

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:16 (twenty years ago)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/highacidity/bathtub.jpg

deej.., Friday, 2 September 2005 15:18 (twenty years ago)

oh man

maura (maura), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

responding to tangent time:

Stepping aside from Katrina specifically for a moment:

Y'all think *I* do that?

yes. i'm pretty sure if i searched on your posts that were reposts of his posts, i'd have quite a few results. don't take it the wrong way, i know why you're fascinated by him, but at the end of the day it's something that i can't really understand or share. i mean, the guy is clearly a douche, even after reading him for a little bit. can it really be that much of a revelation at this point that he's going to contradict himself, badly?

What about all the feebs who watch him and nod their head approvingly even when he slips up, self-contradicts, begs forgiveness? *They're* the ones I'm worried about, and they're why I want to see what the mouthpieces say.

i honestly don't think they matter. i'm not sure there's that many of them, either.

but that said, i'm just pointing it out to point it out, as hopefully constructive criticism, not cuz i like hate ya or nothing. that's all.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:31 (twenty years ago)

BBC are reporting choppers are dumping boxes of water, and food rashings in a car park.

No officials on the ground, so it's just young men who fight to get the food.

DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

Have you ever thrown a piece of bread into a coi pond?

Draw Tipsy, ya hack. (dave225.3), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

don't eat those food rashings anyway, you'll get a rash.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

i honestly don't think they matter. i'm not sure there's that many of them, either.

What matters, I think, is that regardless of the exact amount more than a few are in more than a few positions of power these days. Tuning into that wavelength is an eerie fascination, I admit. But we could debate this into the ground.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:43 (twenty years ago)

Ted Koppel grilling Head FEMA Fuckhead

You guys, something is happening.

Ted Koppel, Joe Scarborough, NRO, Cafferty, Anderson Coopers, Robert Siegel on NPR grilling Chertof, fucking PAULA ZAHN getting pissed off, etc. Something is happening here. Please Christ let the deaths of thousands of Americans have at least the effect of shaking up the complacency of everyone else.

kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:50 (twenty years ago)

Of course, the personality defects of many of those who got us into this mess will also prevent them from learning anything from it, or even recognizing that it's a problem...

kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:52 (twenty years ago)

which is why we can only hope that people wake up to what utter, utter fucktards they are, and hound them out of office with pointy sticks and flaming torches.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

If I were down there I'd probably be walking around in a daze asking for my Pop-Tarts.

Andy_K (Andy_K), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

There's an interesting comment at the end of the Koppel thing that kingfish linked:

NOTE: One quote caught my ear but I didn't quite focus on it. I've played it again and Brown is laying the groundwork for putting the blame on LA's governor. (It must be a Fox News talking point; my dad made the same argument earlier.)

Brown of FEMA: We work closely with the state government. The federal government didn not just come in here and tell the state governor how or what to do. We came in here and said, 'What do you want us to do? We will help you.' We are now taking it upon ourselves to do what we think needs to be done. And we will continue to do that.

Translation: LA's Democratic governnor screwed things up royally and now we're cleaning up her mess and taking charge.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

Somehow I don't think that'll take root, except with Republican cheerleaders.

Draw Tipsy, ya hack. (dave225.3), Friday, 2 September 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

Oh good, it will only take root with the majority of the media then.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 2 September 2005 16:02 (twenty years ago)

these guys deserve a medal!

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

Somehow I don't think that'll take root, except with Republican cheerleaders.

still, it's always good to identify and point out the Talking Point when it begins.

kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 September 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)


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