Lulzsec scares me.
I met Sean Hoare a couple of times at music dos in the late 90s. Nice guy, usually pissed (as in drunk, not angry).
― Strictly vote-splitting (DL), Monday, 18 July 2011 23:20 (thirteen years ago) link
NI and Times sites also down/hacked. perhaps include the Mail's site out of fairness?
― blueski, Monday, 18 July 2011 23:20 (thirteen years ago) link
quite prepared to believe he was murdered, especially as the news of the world private detective jonathan rees, who was accused of killing a guy with an axe, is still at large, but there are reasons to believe this guy was ready to go at any time.
― joe, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 09:14 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Definitely an easy target, then. The timing cannot be ignored.
― invite ← VERB (Schlafsack), Monday, 18 July 2011 23:24 (thirteen years ago) link
you're not making any sense. the fact that he was very possibly ill and likely to die of natural causes means... that it's easier to murder him? but you were implying it was a presumed suicide earlier. our putative murderer can't have made it look like suicide and natural causes all at once.
there's enough conspiracy here already without jumping to conclusions and making your own.
― joe, Monday, 18 July 2011 23:30 (thirteen years ago) link
Conspiracy theorists embarrassing themselves on this one IMO. As with David Kelly, (a) it's too late - the damage is done and (b) you don't go knocking people off in the full glare of the media spotlight.
― Strictly vote-splitting (DL), Monday, 18 July 2011 23:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Tell that to Bin Laden / Saddam Hussein
― Mark G, Monday, 18 July 2011 23:39 (thirteen years ago) link
you're not making any sense. the fact that he was very possibly ill and likely to die of natural causes means... that it's easier to murder him?
It's an obvious alibi.
but you were implying it was a presumed suicide earlier. our putative murderer can't have made it look like suicide and natural causes all at once.
I said the press reported suicide.
How about not jamming words into my mouth.
― invite ← VERB (Schlafsack), Monday, 18 July 2011 23:40 (thirteen years ago) link
So if the lulzsec crew makes available the full data grab to UK/US cops, can any of that be used legally, if not as admissible evidence, then something?
Also, iPhones now autocomplete for 'lulzsec'. FYI.
― Crazed Mister Handy (kingfish), Monday, 18 July 2011 23:41 (thirteen years ago) link
xp where did the press report a suicide, is what i originally asked? it wasn't in any of the reports i read (guardian, mostly).
― joe, Monday, 18 July 2011 23:41 (thirteen years ago) link
Widely reported as "not suspicious" until just recently.
― invite ← VERB (Schlafsack), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 09:05 (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― invite ← VERB (Schlafsack), Monday, 18 July 2011 23:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Okay, I just realised you probably didn't know that "not suspicious" is press code for suicide.
― invite ← VERB (Schlafsack), Monday, 18 July 2011 23:44 (thirteen years ago) link
it wouldn't also be used if it just seemed like someone had died of natural causes or in circumstances in which it didn't ... seem ... suspicious?
― Aa Bb Obscure Dull Blue (#000066) (schlump), Monday, 18 July 2011 23:44 (thirteen years ago) link
xp i work as a news reporter, and i know that if you assume a "not suspicious" death is a suicide, you sometimes get made to look like a fool.
― joe, Monday, 18 July 2011 23:46 (thirteen years ago) link
It is more often than not code for suicide, though. If someone died of natural causes they say that.
― stet, Monday, 18 July 2011 23:48 (thirteen years ago) link
CNBC saying Murdoch Jr considering position.
― stet, Monday, 18 July 2011 23:52 (thirteen years ago) link
conclusion: fuuuuuuuuuuuuucked
― blueski, Monday, 18 July 2011 23:54 (thirteen years ago) link
We covered the suicide/no-suspicious-circumstances thing in detail at uni in the '90s. Right now all I can find is mentions on various blogs and page 2 of this (opens a pdf).
xxp AWESOME
― invite ← VERB (Schlafsack), Monday, 18 July 2011 23:54 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-18/news-corp-said-to-consider-naming-chase-carey-as-ceo-suceeding-murdoch.html
― stet, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:00 (thirteen years ago) link
who is Louise Boat?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG7IURgryjA
― zappi, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:00 (thirteen years ago) link
Think CNBC meant Rupert going too and I picked it up wrong.
― stet, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:01 (thirteen years ago) link
joe i'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole "not suspicious" convention in the uk. you're saying it could mean an OD?
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:01 (thirteen years ago) link
In a number of paper style books I've seen the advice for reporting suicides is to report them as deaths not in suspicious circumstances, because of the risk of copycats. Accidental ODs can be and are reported as such
― stet, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:03 (thirteen years ago) link
From that pdf link I posted (Aus Parliament House):
At the time of the establishment of the Press Council in 1976, the Australian press tended notto report suicide, whether the story related to a particular self-harm incident or to a coronialinquiry into such an incident. In order to avoid references to suicide, the press employed insuch reports some circumlocutions that persist to this day, for example, "the police say thatthere were no suspicious circumstances".
As stet said it's by no means nomenclature that applies only to suicides but it's reasonable to interpret it that way unless explicitly informed otherwise.
― invite ← VERB (Schlafsack), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:07 (thirteen years ago) link
so.... what are the other things it can mean?
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:09 (thirteen years ago) link
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 01:01 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
i don't think it's necessarily a convention in this case, they've probably not carried out a postmortem yet so all they know is that there's a sudden death with no obvious external cause. there are coded euphemisms for violent deaths, when "no suspicious circumstances" does mean that the only logical conclusion is suicide. but for non-violent deaths then "not suspicious" can just mean a guy died, and that's it - but when someone dies randomly in watford and neighbours call the police after they've not been seen for a few days, it's not usually national news.
― joe, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:11 (thirteen years ago) link
Given most stories still say unexplained-but-not-thought-suspicious, I think it currently means anything from natural causes to OD to suicide, but no obvious foul play.xp
― stet, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:13 (thirteen years ago) link
accidental death would be another 'not suspicious' one
― scraping wheatus off the wheel (NickB), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:15 (thirteen years ago) link
This isn't really a universal code, no, but once the death is explained, most of these other explanations would be reported as such. The report would just say "believed to have died of an accidental drug overdose" or "accidental death". When you have an explained death that's reported as nothing other than "the circumstances are not believed to be suspicious" that's usually a p. clear code for suicide.
Because this is so high-profile, though, they won't be circumspect about it -- people will report if it's thought to be suicide (cf David Kelly) rather than dancing around it. But it sounds like the cause of death isn't clear, so it's going to take autopsy etc before that happens.
― stet, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:23 (thirteen years ago) link
I feel this story would be complete if they could get that nice Freddie Patel to do the post mortem.
― scraping wheatus off the wheel (NickB), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:25 (thirteen years ago) link
lol
― MY WEEDS STRONG BLUD.mp3 (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:28 (thirteen years ago) link
Because this is so high-profile, though, they won't be circumspect about it -- people will report if it's thought to be suicide (cf David Kelly) rather than dancing around it.
Yeah, if a suicide is that high-profile somebody will get to the big headline first. I'm now so accustomed to seeing local reports of e.g. a road death attributed to 'no suspicious circumstances' that I rarely think twice about it.
― invite ← VERB (Schlafsack), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:28 (thirteen years ago) link
it's such a cocktease of a phrase
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:34 (thirteen years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/IPLPc.jpg
― MY WEEDS STRONG BLUD.mp3 (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 00:39 (thirteen years ago) link
cameron-and-a-hoodie.jpg
― I am Louise Boat (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 01:02 (thirteen years ago) link
from toynbee today, btw:
the Mail on Sunday reported that Cameron intended to hire the BBC's Guto Harri as his press secretary. So close, apparently, was the appointment that the Harri family visited the Camerons one weekend in 2007 at Chipping Norton to discuss it, but the job went to Andy Coulson after Rebekah Brooks "is said to have told Mr Cameron that the post should go to Mr Coulson to strengthen links between the Tories and News International". Is this true? Reviewing the papers on the Andrew Marr programme on Sunday, I pointed out this story and said Harri was well-known in the BBC as a straight-as-a-die, honest man. I was pleased to get a text from Harri just after the show saying "Thanks". Does that mean it is true? I called Harri, who now works for Boris Johnson, to check. Yes, he said he'd heard tell that his name was not acceptable to News International. "I heard it as gossip on the grapevine – but I have no idea whether or not it's true. Yes, I did talk to David Cameron about taking the job – but whilst I lingered they'd clearly approached Andy Coulson." He had a good idea who the source from the Sun was for the story. How Cameron must wish he had given Harri the job. The idea that News International planted their man in the heart of Downing Street is truly shocking.
― Aa Bb Obscure Dull Blue (#000066) (schlump), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 01:09 (thirteen years ago) link
lol yesterday's guardian liveblog
8.29am: "The number of dead bodies on the stage is beginning to resemble the final scene of a Shakespearian tragedy" is how the Guardian puts it today.
― MY WEEDS STRONG BLUD.mp3 (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 01:23 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-19/news-corp-share-slump-murdoch/2799888
News Corp total value down an estimated 20%/US$9b since all this started. DELICIOUS.
― invite ← VERB (Schlafsack), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 01:27 (thirteen years ago) link
It is going to be interesting after all the fallout to see how (if?) this changes the tone of bias in news reportage in the media in general.
― Bloompsday (Trayce), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 01:30 (thirteen years ago) link
i know lol no-one buys papers but are there any figures re: how the sun/times has done this month?
― I am Louise Boat (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 01:35 (thirteen years ago) link
@DavidPrescott What a truly bizarre coincidence. The bodies of Sean Hoare and David Kelly were both discovered on July 18.
― natalie imbroglio (suzy), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 01:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Nice little overview of the board via Sorkin:
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/07/18/murdochs-board-stays-silent-as-scandal-widens/
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 01:56 (thirteen years ago) link
timebomb about to go off y/n
― invite ← VERB (Schlafsack), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 01:59 (thirteen years ago) link
All the hacked sites seem to be completely down now--anyone got a screencap or something showing what the hackers did?
― not bulimic, just a cat (James Morrison), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 02:10 (thirteen years ago) link
Here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/18/sun-website-hacked-lulzsechttp://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-19/the-sun-hacked-by-lulz/2799822
― invite ← VERB (Schlafsack), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 02:11 (thirteen years ago) link
Fantastic! Thanks
― not bulimic, just a cat (James Morrison), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 02:28 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/92159/news-corp-vs-its-critics
/meta/uscentric
we covered the redolently desperate WSJ editorial itt already, but it was even worse that i thought
― goole, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 03:43 (thirteen years ago) link
News Corp papers worldwide seem to be covering this thing in two ways:
1. by focusing entirely on the phone hacking aspect (as if to say "right well we've done our job as journalists, let's move on")2. by cranking up the noise about anything at all that serves as an effective distraction
I'm not allowing myself to ~really~ believe it just yet, but this is starting to feel like the death of News Corp as a political force. Those WSJ pieces are the kicking and screaming laid bare.
― invite ← VERB (Schlafsack), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 03:51 (thirteen years ago) link
papers media outlets
Remember how last week there was the fuss over Cameron hosting The Sun's Police Bravery Awards at Downing Street? The next night he hosted a Downing Street reception "to commemorate the top 100 companies listed in The Sunday Times Profit Track 100 2011 awards".
― James Mitchell, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 07:18 (thirteen years ago) link
9.18am: Chris Bryant, the Labour MP who has been campaigning on phone hacking for ages, has just dropped an intriguing hint about "more to come" in an interview on BBC News. The theatre of [today's appearance] is irrelevant. In the end we've got to get to the bottom of what is a very murky pool. And I tell you Rebekah Brooks was right. We're only half way into that pool at the moment. There's stuff about Surrey police as well and other things that are still to come out.
The theatre of [today's appearance] is irrelevant. In the end we've got to get to the bottom of what is a very murky pool. And I tell you Rebekah Brooks was right. We're only half way into that pool at the moment. There's stuff about Surrey police as well and other things that are still to come out.
The Millie Dowler investigation was handled by Surrey police. So was Abigail Witchalls iirc.
― scraping wheatus off the wheel (NickB), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 09:09 (thirteen years ago) link