2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

no

o

that sux.

songs of experience = hillary
songs of innocence = obama

axelrod probably could have produced a better song than will.i.am did

mccain = earth rot

obama = a divine image

hillary = a little girl lost

Huckabee=Mass in F Minor

wow this article is excellent, great find deej

yeah real well written too:

This is Axelrod’s Chicago, the old ward Democrats, and he started bantering with the guy. The firefighter asked Axelrod about Obama: “Everybody’s raving about him, this new black guy, but he doesn’t have any experience. Not everyone’s in love with him, you know.” And the guy grinned, confrontationally, and it just kind of hung there, like race sometimes does in Chicago, somewhere between tolerance and menace.

David Axelrod looks like Thomas Friedman

Campaigning in Ohio today, Barack Obama said the American people would not be swayed by Ralph Nader's run for president.

"There you go. He's at it every four years," Obama said during a news conference.

Obama said Nader had convinced some voters that there was little difference between President Bush and Al Gore.

"Eight years later people realize Ralph didn't know what he was talking about," he said.

obama otm

Yep. Josh Marshall: Ralph Nader is Bush's cheif enabler. Hopefully, casting him like this early will further diminish his impact on the GE.

Let me try that again: Bush's chief enabler.

haha what do u really think o? about all that needs to be said though really, no matter how harshly.

Bush's chief enabler was Al Gore, for not carrying his home state.

i find this capn save a nader article kind of convincing

But Nader's not looking for Valentines from the Democrats.

Frankly, he's not even all that interested in popular approval.

The public-interest crusader worries far less about poll numbers and even vote totals than about saying what he feels needs to be said -- and using the forum of the electoral process to say it. And he is certainly not the first progressive -- inside the Democratic Party or out -- to suggest that Obama needs to be prodded on issues ranging from labor law to corporate regulation to single-payer health care and Middle East policy.

Nader's greatest value in any race is -- like Socialist Norman Thomas in his races against Democratic Franklin Roosevelt -- as a source of pressure on the Democratic nominee to address fundamental questions and perhaps to take more progressive stands on a few issues. As in 2000 and 2004, Nader's appeal will be determined in large part by the extent to which the Democratic candidate is willing to be bold.

Obama seems to understands this. Unlike Gore or Kerry, who never quite "got" the point of Nader's runs in 2000 and 2004, the Illinois senator appears to recognize that it is pointless to grumble about Ralph Nader as a "spoiler." Rather, the point is to be more appealing to progressive voters who might consider voting Green or independent.

Yeah, I agree.

Except: FDR didn't pay much attention to Norman Thomas.

Bush's chief enabler was Al Gore, for not carrying his home state.

qft, FOREVER.

Bush's chief enabler was Al Gore, for not carrying his home state.

Bush's chief enabler was the fucking insane electoral college system.

Bush's chief enabler was the SCOTUS

come on you guys a lot people enabled bush theres no need to play favorites

Bush's chief enabler was shitholes like Tennessee

BUSH HAD AN ARMY OF ENABLERS AT HIS DIABOLICAL DISPOSAL.

I don't want to do the Nader argument yet again, but you can put me down as someone who has seen the evidence does not consider him a spoiler even in 2000, and his chances of being one THIS election are next to nothing.

but not blaming your shitty nominee is a time honored dem tradition. if it's not nader it's the media or some other dark, external force

exactly.

Democrats also like to rag on Nader in spite of all the evidence because it allows them to feel self-righteous about their "pragmatism."

I think the real question here is how many Cynthia McKinney votes will Ralph steal?

lol my hrc friend (of "hilary needs to put obama in his place" fame) just told me "if you and 536 other nader voters had gotten off your high horses in 2000 the world would look very different today"

we need to not be friends anymore i think

CNN poll:

http://images.politico.com/global/quickvote.jpg

*SMH*

i voted for nader!

He'll get less votes this time than last time around.

obama's secret service codename is "renegade"

I'm voting for Nader a third time bitches.

you dick!

how dare you exercise your democratic right?

you might as well vote for nader, it's not like ur vote counts anyway

oh no mccain might win New York now cause of Jon

oh no if Cynthia McKinney's running I might not be able to vote for Obama :(

http://www.gp.org/committees/pcsc/index.shtml

The Presidential Campaign Support Committee has approved a list of Green Party Presidential Candidates, according to the guidelines voted on by the Green National Committee.

GREEN PARTY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES

Jesse Johnson – http://www.jesse08.org/
Cynthia McKinney – http://www.runcynthiarun.org/
Kent Mesplay – http://www.mesplay.org/
Kat Swift – http://www.bexargreens.org/katforprez/

DRAFT CANDIDATE:
Ralph Nader – http://www.draftnader.org/

I think she could do great things for this country http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3gTpqMVOVQ

Bush's chief enabler was Al Gore, for not carrying his home state.

anyone in tennessee could have told you that was gonna happen. tennessee hadn't been al's home for most of the 1990s, and in that interim was the '94 midterm elections. overnight the state went from 2 democratic senators and a democratic governor to republicans in all three seats. gore probably got a false sense of security because clinton won it, but clinton won it against candidates whom the local breed of gop loyalists recognized as pretenders and hacks. they didn't vote for clinton, but some of them probably didn't vote. but in 2000 against bush-cheney, the loyalists were excited again, and there was no way gore was going to carry that state. blaming gore for losing his state is ignoring that the state was in the later wave of sourthern strategy switches. democrats held on there for longer than they did in some other places, but they weren't gonna hold on forever, the currents were just too strong.

of course if gore's campaign somehow didnt know that, then there'd be some legitimate blaming.

http://thepage.time.com/halperin’s-take-ways-mccain-can-beat-obama-that-clinton-cannot/

I'm voting for Nader a third time bitches.

gotta stick together

Democrats also like to rag on Nader in spite of all the evidence because it allows them to feel self-righteous about their "pragmatism."

name names

http://i25.tinypic.com/6hug6r.jpg

my strawz, let me show you me clutching them

fwiw, latest SurveyUSA head-to-heads against McCain - http://www.surveyusa.com/electionpolls.aspx - listed from most Clinton-friendly to most Obama-friendly

Clinton wins but Obama leads (barely) - Massachusetts, Ohio
Clinton wins and Obama likely wins - Missouri
Obama wins and Clinton likely wins - New Mexico, Minnesota
Obama wins but Clinton is tied - Washington (2/5 results)
Obama wins but Clinton trails - Wisconsin, Virginia
Obama wins but Clinton loses - Iowa (confirmed by Des Moines Register poll)
Obama leads but Clinton loses - Oregon
Clinton loses and Obama likely loses - Kansas

also
both lose soundly but Clinton by a much smaller margin - Kentucky (2/5 results)
both lose soundly but Clinton by a little less - Alabama
both lose but Obama by a little less - Indiana (2/5 results)
both win soundly but Obama by a little more - California
both win but Obama by a much bigger margin - New York