2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

lol good comparison

what is obama like

Franchot Tone.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518J3VKY75L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

sorry

gabbneb otm

The negative strategy is a strange about-face from her graciousness at the last debate. I guess the "outrage" about Obama's mailings gave her the pretext to change tactics? Still, the disconnect is odd and hard to reconcile. I suppose at high-profile events, like the debates, she can be gracious, giving her a pathway to standing-down gracefully, but at lower-profile events, like individual rallies in Tx. and Ohio, she can be negative, in a final effort to derail Obama's momentum. Too little, too late on that front, I suspect.

this should give her a bump actually. that and the 'unpatriotic' charges seem to be on a slow burn.

I watched the "Hillary mocks Obama" clip up there, and frankly I thought it was pretty mild stuff. By now I've gotten used to reading about how Hillary has gone off the rails with negativity this time, and then when I watch the clip, it's utterly unremarkable, but I'm still surprised that different people react so differently to her.

Even Wait Wait Don't Tell Me was joking about being sick of hearing about "change" today. It's probably too late for a real backlash though.

also o. nate otm

By now I've gotten used to reading about how Hillary has gone off the rails with negativity this time, and then when I watch the clip, it's utterly unremarkable

Totally agree.

"OMG, she's gently parodying her political opponent! What a psycho hose beast!"

If she's adopted that mocking tone at an earlier point in the campaign, I hadn't noticed it. Hard-hitting, yes, but mocking and chiding and baiting Obama? Maybe I missed it.

yeah, i would say the huffington video upthread is the first smart-sounding thing i've heard her say vs. YES WE CAN. too bad for her she wasn't saying that like 10 primary elections ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/magazine/01axelrod.t.html

^^^great article from april 07 that talks about how axelrod devised the strategy for marketing obama

I watched the "Hillary mocks Obama" clip up there, and frankly I thought it was pretty mild stuff

who has said otherwise?

this has probably been asked before but is obama's david axelrod the same person as the musician david axelrod?

no

o

that sux.

songs of experience = hillary
songs of innocence = obama

axelrod probably could have produced a better song than will.i.am did

mccain = earth rot

obama = a divine image

hillary = a little girl lost

Huckabee=Mass in F Minor

wow this article is excellent, great find deej

yeah real well written too:

This is Axelrod’s Chicago, the old ward Democrats, and he started bantering with the guy. The firefighter asked Axelrod about Obama: “Everybody’s raving about him, this new black guy, but he doesn’t have any experience. Not everyone’s in love with him, you know.” And the guy grinned, confrontationally, and it just kind of hung there, like race sometimes does in Chicago, somewhere between tolerance and menace.

David Axelrod looks like Thomas Friedman

Campaigning in Ohio today, Barack Obama said the American people would not be swayed by Ralph Nader's run for president.

"There you go. He's at it every four years," Obama said during a news conference.

Obama said Nader had convinced some voters that there was little difference between President Bush and Al Gore.

"Eight years later people realize Ralph didn't know what he was talking about," he said.

obama otm

Yep. Josh Marshall: Ralph Nader is Bush's cheif enabler. Hopefully, casting him like this early will further diminish his impact on the GE.

Let me try that again: Bush's chief enabler.

haha what do u really think o? about all that needs to be said though really, no matter how harshly.

Bush's chief enabler was Al Gore, for not carrying his home state.

i find this capn save a nader article kind of convincing

But Nader's not looking for Valentines from the Democrats.

Frankly, he's not even all that interested in popular approval.

The public-interest crusader worries far less about poll numbers and even vote totals than about saying what he feels needs to be said -- and using the forum of the electoral process to say it. And he is certainly not the first progressive -- inside the Democratic Party or out -- to suggest that Obama needs to be prodded on issues ranging from labor law to corporate regulation to single-payer health care and Middle East policy.

Nader's greatest value in any race is -- like Socialist Norman Thomas in his races against Democratic Franklin Roosevelt -- as a source of pressure on the Democratic nominee to address fundamental questions and perhaps to take more progressive stands on a few issues. As in 2000 and 2004, Nader's appeal will be determined in large part by the extent to which the Democratic candidate is willing to be bold.

Obama seems to understands this. Unlike Gore or Kerry, who never quite "got" the point of Nader's runs in 2000 and 2004, the Illinois senator appears to recognize that it is pointless to grumble about Ralph Nader as a "spoiler." Rather, the point is to be more appealing to progressive voters who might consider voting Green or independent.

Yeah, I agree.

Except: FDR didn't pay much attention to Norman Thomas.

Bush's chief enabler was Al Gore, for not carrying his home state.

qft, FOREVER.

Bush's chief enabler was Al Gore, for not carrying his home state.

Bush's chief enabler was the fucking insane electoral college system.

Bush's chief enabler was the SCOTUS

come on you guys a lot people enabled bush theres no need to play favorites

Bush's chief enabler was shitholes like Tennessee

BUSH HAD AN ARMY OF ENABLERS AT HIS DIABOLICAL DISPOSAL.

I don't want to do the Nader argument yet again, but you can put me down as someone who has seen the evidence does not consider him a spoiler even in 2000, and his chances of being one THIS election are next to nothing.

but not blaming your shitty nominee is a time honored dem tradition. if it's not nader it's the media or some other dark, external force

exactly.

Democrats also like to rag on Nader in spite of all the evidence because it allows them to feel self-righteous about their "pragmatism."

I think the real question here is how many Cynthia McKinney votes will Ralph steal?

lol my hrc friend (of "hilary needs to put obama in his place" fame) just told me "if you and 536 other nader voters had gotten off your high horses in 2000 the world would look very different today"

we need to not be friends anymore i think

CNN poll:

http://images.politico.com/global/quickvote.jpg

*SMH*

i voted for nader!

He'll get less votes this time than last time around.