RFI: Italy

We're heading to a campsite by Lake Garda this summer. I've just received the 'parc guide' and am a bit alarmed by these two bits:
Swimming caps must be worn in the pool
and
In order to use the pool facilities, many require their male guests to wear fitted lycra swimming shorts, and not the 'boxer' or 'surf' style. Please check with the parc for their restrictions on this.

I lived in Italy for three years, but I never went to a swimming pool in that time. The thing about swimming caps does ring a bell, though - I'm pretty sure a female (British) colleague of mine was moaning about it. Would they seriously expect me to wear one? (I am a man with hair shaved to just a few millimetres length). What about my three-year-old daughter?

As for the trunks thing, this just seems mental. From experience, I know hypochondria is par for the course in Italy - the terror of the 'colpo d'aria' which is unknown in the rest of the world, for example, or the number of people I met who genuinely feared a shower soon after eating could cause them serious harm - and in this context the hair / swimming cap thing makes some sense on a hygiene level. But I can't even begin to see what the thinking is behind the clamping down on 'boxer/surf' style swimming costumes. It doesn't seem to make sense on any level: I can't see any health issue (real or imagined) and if the issue was one of, er, 'modesty' then surely the speedos would be outlawed and the baggy trunks encouraged?

Caps are definitely a hygiene thing and they are required in almost every Italian swimming pool.
As for the shorts, this is completely news for me too - never heard about any "restriction" about it and its patently a crazy idea.

a lot of american pools forbid cut-offs, t-shirts and other "non-standard" forms of swimwear. perhaps an absurdly uptight extension of the same idea?

i guess "a lot" there really = "some." i really mean that it's not unheard of.

I don't even get the hygiene thing with swimming caps? Is it something to do with hair, because of the several Italians I know, the majority are pretty hairy all over.

What all sensible Italians are wearing to the pool this year...
http://racked.com/uploads/2011-04-Nigella-Lawson-Burkini.jpg

Thanks, Marco. I've scanned the campsite's website and there are several photos of people in and around the pool with their brazenly uncovered heads and their outrageously non-skintight swimwear, so hopefully this is just an overzealous tip for travellers that bears little relation to reality.

Ned - yeah this was puzzling me, too. For the sake of consistency you'd think they would have to insist that bearded men wore special beard covers and that anyone with a remotely hairy body would have to wrap themselves in cling film.

Ah, the colpo d'aria thing made me laugh hard - blame hyperprotective Italian moms!

Re...vive?

Milan, Venice, Sicily (mainly Palermo and Catania) and Rome.

Really keen on getting the train from Venice to Sicily but it's a hell of a long ride so thinking Florence and Naples on the way.

Would recommendations on bars, venues, and how to find gigs. Non-obvious tourist stuff? The sort of stuff that should be really easy now compared to fifteen years ago, but sorta isn't?

I thought this was going to be about the anti-vaxxer health minister firing all the scientists from the board that supervises health policy in Italy.

My advice. Go in the autumn. There’s a lot more between Venice and Sicily and if you want gigs places like Bologna and Verona get a lot of touring acts.

more antipasto less anti-vaxxers ffs. As if you didn't already need more proof that the 5 star lot are complete scum of the earth morons.

Fuck Florence if you want non touristy things - it's possible but it's so bloody crowded. It's a shame because obviously it's awesome in many ways. My sister in law is there now and seems to be enjoying it but it's still busy (obviously).Avoid the summer.

I've been to Naples in October/November and had good weather and the streets are a bit quieter. I don't find Naples terribly touristy, a lot of people en route to Capri, etc in the summer/autumn, but I loved the place, they've done a lot of pedestrianising over the last ten years which has improved yr ability to walk around without being run over.

Already vaccinated, already going midway through December until February.

Ed you had an impressive list upthread, anything you'd add/remove/change?

Florence is great in the winter / out of season. Even some of the big attractions are fine if you go at the right time (Palazzo Pitti first thing in the morning,etc).

I’m completely out of the loop on bars / venues but Nottingham Forest in Milan is great for cocktails.

Trains are superb. I think I did Milan-Napoli earlier this year and it’s painless.

napoli is an excellent city for walking about, lots of spectacular views. we stumbled upon a rad little bar/bookshop/record shop called perditempo which offered some agreeably experimental/eclectic DJing as we sipped our beers

Thanks ShariVari. Been to Florence before, beautiful place. Although can't remember if I did Palazzo Pitti. Spent a day at the Uffizi and alsop the Duomo. Also had the best panino in my life.

The trains are indeed excellent, last time I went Venice - Bolzano - Florence. Though I hear it gets progressively less excellent the further south you go?

Will check out Nottingham Forest. Enjoying the owners' salty replies to reviews on google.

Added Perditempo, thanks ogmor.

So far

Milan 18-24 December, then Venice. Seems like some good suggestions here?

https://www.modalitademode.com/rubrica-milano-en/36-hours-in-milan-not-ordinary-itinerary/

Florence being touristy- I still bring up how A Room With A View (1908) talks about Florence being touristy.

You still do, Carey

I bumped the other thread, but hey since we're here does anyone have suggestions/cool tips for Genoa, Elba, Sapri, or Cosenza?

bump

we def wanna go off the tourist track and into the south as far as time allows

it's one of my hits! wait who is S-?

I think the most south in Italy I have been is driving around from Naples to Amalfi, 2-3 years ago. I really like the white wine from Liguria/Genoa. Just remember "pigato" very crisp and easy.

excellent, tyvm

yeah we wanna head down to Calabria, where my wife's family (and like 90% of US Italian immigrants) are from. We're looking at a night in one of the smaller Amalfi towns on the way.

Have you already been down there? We have a local friend from Sicily that we want to visit with and we keep putting it off because we can't make seasons work out.

nope, first time in Europe for either of us

Bumping thread again with a non-standard RFI...

Before leaving for (but after booking flights to) Italy I've injured my knee.

Pretty much the worst thing I can do for it is stand for long periods, which really sucks for a place so rich in galleries and sites of antiquities. Walking long distances to is Not Good. At least sitting and gorging myself is still in (and er, worry about the resultant weight gain once the knee's better).

I'm in Bologna at the moment, no definite plans except need to get to Palermo by the 26th of January (though maybe go on the 18th to see Palermo vs. Salernitana).

Anyway, excited about the train from Napoli to Palermo - perfect sedentary sightseeing. Any other recommendations like this?

Bologna is excellent for just eating. I've been twice and don't have any memory besides eating and walking. But that is almost everywhere I go, I guess. Are you wearing a knee brace or anything?

It really is. More places I want to try than time I have to try them. Also been invited to a couple of people's houses for food which has been great.

Nah no brace, perhaps I should have looked into one. The physio said to take it easy, which I thought I was. Obviously not enough. Venice clearly not the best place if you want to avoid walking and stairs (also pretty much anyone's house in European cities).

Ugh Venice, city of people with rolling luggage. I have knee problems a lot. You should just go to the pharmacy and get a compression sleeve, or even an ace wrap to at least keep it stable and keep it from swelling when you do walk.

revised tentative itinerary:

fly to Amsterdam, stay a day, then plane to Nyons area in France for a few days

Nyons to Genoa, 1 -2 nights there

Genoa to Salerno and then bus to Minori (Amalfi coast) for a night

Salerno to Paola on the west cost of Calabria (the fast train goes this way)

Paola to Cosenza inland by bus, 3-4 nights total in Calabria

back to Naples for flight out to Amsterdam

has anyone here spent time in Calabria?

I only went to Genoa once, to change trains coming from the Cinque Terre, but there was a problem with our train and we got stuck there for several hours. The food in the Genoa train station cafeteria was ghoulish: I felt sorry that chickens died only to be prepared so miserably. I don't know what there is to do there besides eat, but that would be good enough for me.

Why are you going to Nyons?

to stay with friends for free! 3-4 days

I had not heard of Nyons, but I see that it's close to Montélimar, famous for its nougat which got it a mention in "Savoy Truffle".

haha noted!

I had not heard of it either but it's super, super close to vacqueyras/gigondas where I did a grape harvest.I've gone in and out of the Orange and Avignon train station a lot.

we would consider alternatives to Genoa anywhere on the Ligurian coast if anyone has recommendations, just stopping for a night or two because it's on the way to Florence

well the Cinque Terre is lovely! I haven't been for twenty years though. when we went we just showed up in Vernazza, asked at a bar if he knew of any rooms in town, ended up staying with the bartender's sister's family for a couple of days. a kind of proto airb&b I guess.

thank you, will investigate.

Genoa is worth it - a bit gritty with a real port atmosphere. The old town is dark, sinewy and interesting. Also it's a perfect base for some nice day trips, eg Cinque Terre but also Porto Fino, which off season is truly lovely.

Sestri Levante is a very nice medium-sized town that you can use as a base to visit the Cinque Terre, etc. It is pricy, but Hotel Vis a Vis is awesome with wonderful views of two bays.

I just booked for a trip to hike in the Dolomites in the first week of September. Does anyone have any recommendations on hiking (especially overnight stays in a Refugio), where to stay, restaurants, etc.?

I recommend 'Midnight In Sicily' if anyone is looking for a history of Italy focussing on the corruptions of Andreotti and a personal take of the years 1978-1992. It's in English.

Hi - I'm visiting Rome for 10 days in early April and my last European travel was Iceland in 2014... I'd be grateful for recommendations about anything Rome-related at all. I've lived in NYC for 20+ years and am not a seasoned traveler but my partner has spent time in Rome and is familiar with the language and city, so that's comforting to me. We have some plans while there but what would you do?? The only contribution I've added to our list of adventures would be to see some live jazz after a long dinner -- there seem to be a few places for that. Anyway, thank you!

For food, Katie Parla is your guide. Check her on Instagram, her podcast, and various publications for which she writes.

Try to get in to a classic Roman restaurant. Armando al Pantheon is the gold standard, but likely booked up already (check their website). If you get in, the chicken innard pasta is a must.

Baring that, Al Moro is also classic (including the gruff but professional service).

Il Goccetto is a very small and quiet (at least at lunch) wine bar with simple dishes like meat and cheese platters, salads, and pickled vegetables under olive oil. This is where I have lunch immediately after arriving in Rome. Some of the attraction is that it is our place, but I also think it is unpretentious and good.

Latteria Trastevere a great wine bar/restaurant in Trastevere with outdoor seating on a quiet lane.

Otaleg and Geletaria al Teatro for gelato.

Santo Palato, a neo-traditionalist trattoria, just closed and I suspect it won't reopen by then. Romané, by the Vatican, is a similar alternative. Great pasta carbonara (and other pastas).

Antico Forno Roscioli - Square pizza by the slice for takeaway (no seating other than one or two tables outside). They have about 20-30 kinds to choose from and are always cycling more in and out.
Forno Campo de Fiori: Pizza "al taglio" (sold by weight on the go) in central Rome on the Campo de Fiori. No seating. They may not speak English, but just use your hands to show how much you want.
Ai Marmi: A classic Roman-style pizza place. Open in the evening only. No reservations. There will be a wait unless you get there when it opens. Wood fired. Also try the fried baccala (fried salted cod).

Palazzo Doria Pamphili - A museum in the palazzo of one of Rome's oldest noble families with famous artwork and a fun audio guide.
Villa Borghese - Over the top with mosaics, Bernini, and great art. You need to book ahead.
San Clemente: A church from the 1100s, on top of a church from the 400s, on top of a 1st Century Roman Mithraeum (pagan temple).
Fontana dell'Acqua Paola: This is a fountain on the hills of Trastevere. The fountain is beautiful and there are views over the center of Rome that are worth the trip. Skip the Trevi Fountain and go here before sunset instead.

Also, Santa Maria del Minerva has a great chapel by I forget who and a Michaelangelo statue. Free to enter and not too crowded.

San Pietro in Vincoli is another church with free admission. The interior is unremarkable but for Michaelangelo's famous Moses statue. Absolutely incredible, if a bit crowded.

I haven't been keeping up with it but it was forecast the Papal Jubilee would cause chaos round the seven churches and routes between them because of the extra footfall. If your partner knows anyone there it might be worth checking out for spots to avoid.

Also I think do not underestimate just how busy the main attractions have become on the past couple of years - have seen video and heard tales of 2-3 hour waits at the Pantheon, St Ignatius etc.

My favourite thing is still Cripta det Frati Cappuccini, but I'm a sucker for an ossuary. Throw in a few incorruptible saint and other relics and I'm happy. Also worth a visit if you're in the area is Chiesa del Sacro Cuore del Suffragio, which has a tiny museum dedicated to the evidence of lost souls in purgatory at the side (and of course you should be in the area because it's less than a km away from Dario Argento and Luigi Cozzi's shop.)

Trying to think of eating places that I liked, and can only really remember Ristorante Mazze near Palazzo Barberini as one we really liked. Le Tavernelle exciting if the Fermi connection does that for you.

My standard recommendation is Dar Poeta in Trastevere, a local friend took us there and we went back the next night, might be my platonic ideal pizza place.

There's a little mid-price bistro in Ponte called Mimì e Cocò I'd recommend.

has anyone ever been to studio 33?