The Sopranos Vs. The Wire

the Wire definitely could have had some more fleshed out female characters, but the gender thing is ultimately kind of circumstantial...Sopranos is about a family/community full of men and women in (roughly) equal numbers...The Wire is largely about several different professions and walks of life that are traditionally pretty male-dominated.

― Tom Botantino (some dude), Tuesday, December 16, 2008 8:51 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

cuz the italian mafia isnt traditionally male-dominated?

oh shit yeah, Rosalie is great. Angie Bonpensierro too

the Sopranos is way more centrally about a mafia guy's family/home life/love interests than The Wire is abuot a cop/drug dealer's same.

actually all the wives are pretty great (Ginny Sack) with the perhaps glaring exception of Mrs. Lil Stevie Van Zandt.

the Sopranos is way more centrally about a mafia guy's family/home life/love interests than The Wire is abuot a cop/drug dealer's same.

― Tom Botantino (some dude), Tuesday, December 16, 2008 9:02 PM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ya but not because it's not about a male-dominated culture.

you're kinda saying the sopranos has more good female characters because it has more good female characters.

i was clear about what i said, don't be dense.

im just saying how does that jibe with the argument that the wire isnt a cops and robbers show but about this sprawling great city with thousands of characters if none of them are women?? (not that you're making that argument, i dont think.)

the scope of the sopranos goes beyond the trade to the family to include the women in that world--but that's an artistic choice, not a consequence of the subject matter, so i think it's valid to call wire out on that. is all im saying

The Wire is a slice of city life that consists largely of roles traditionally filled by men, with a relatively minor amount of wife/girlfriend/daughter/mother home life included in it. The Sopranos has a main character who is male but has tons of different relationships with female characters. The 2 shows are framed very differently and allow for different kinds of stories, and it's pointless to 'call out' The Wire on that unless you think Simon & Burns said "ooh we don't like writing dialogue for women, let's focus on the boys here." They could've gone deeper into McNulty's marriage and various philanderings, but then it would've been a totally different show.

yeah the sopranos is a show where the lead character is almost defined entirely in some respects by his relationships with women

I can only imagine what Ma McNulty might have like.

*been like

unless you think Simon & Burns said "ooh we don't like writing dialogue for women, let's focus on the boys here."

is it me or didn't some Wire voter suggest this very thing upthread somewhere

i have many things to say about that, but i don't think it's like that!

it's pointless to 'call out' The Wire on that unless you think Simon & Burns said "ooh we don't like writing dialogue for women, let's focus on the boys here"

right, that's why there are historically so few good roles for women in hollywood, because people actually say that out loud

and ya, no duh it would be a different show if they included more female characters and they were written better!

i don't know, the female characters thing is my only criticism of the Wire. it has female characters of course, but it's way less successful at representing women's lives than men's. i always figure simon genuinely has trouble doing that and knows it and kind of stayed away from it.

― horseshoe, Tuesday, December 16, 2008 5:20 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

listen i will write a long post about it soon! (i know, y'all can't wait)

It's not a shocker that writers work around their weaknesses.

but i'm saying if they did write around using more female characters, they didn't do so to the detriment of a plausible gender ratio. if there were NO female cops, lawyers, campaign staffers, dealers or hitpersons in the show, it'd be worth considering, but that's not the case. i totally admit that female characters should be something you can put in the Sopranos' plus column, but to use it as a knock on The Wire kinda gets into, like, telling a casting director for a European period piece that they need more minorities.

that seems like an insane comparison to me.

it's a knowingly extreme comparison.

rhonda pearlman was not a bad character

WIRE BABEZ POLL

rhea perlman was an amazing character

lol

d'angelo's mother was strong as hell, tbf.

Namond's mom in season 4 was awesome

she was. she and kima are the strongest.

"she" meaning briana.

i would kill namond's mom with my hands.

I feel like "get out there and deal those drugs like your daddy did" would have a very different effect in the sopranos than it does in the wire

on the viewer, I mean, not in the world of the show

oh i despise namond's mom too but you can't deny she was a woman on a mission

FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE

I can't imagine anybody in the sopranos generating that powerful a reaction, because they live in a self-contained fantasy universe

yeah horseshoe you sound like you're trapped in a dream sequence or something--are the flames a metaphor?

ha i am quoting Clue. sorry, i'll settle down.

oh shit yeah, Rosalie is great. Angie Bonpensierro too - don't forget about Ginny Sacramoni and her hidden stash of chocolate bars!

I can't imagine anybody in the sopranos generating that powerful a reaction, because they live in a self-contained fantasy universe

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, December 16, 2008 9:41 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

you are aware we are talking about made-up tv shows here right

dude I drank a beer with delegate watkins

ha part of why i am so intense about the wire is that some of the characters seem crazy real to me, especially in season 4. but i am insane.

no i feel the same way so i am just as insane

stop sitting so close to the tv. if it completely fills your field of vision that's an easy mistake to make.

you got sonned by tombot s1ocki -- delegate watkins!!

a beer!!

rhonda pearlman was not a bad character

― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Tuesday, December 16, 2008 3:28 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i agree with this and i don't think any of the female characters on the wire are bad. they're just not as complex/compelling as the men, by and large. i will admit that part of what made me think this was a weakness on Simon & co.'s part was an offhand comment he made about the actress who plays Shardene in a season one episode commentary, which is a kind of slim to hang that charge on. some dude seems right, too, that part of it is a function of the world represented in the show, but it did wear on me eventually that i felt like so much amazing characterization of male characters happened and there was really no comparable light shed on the women.

briana's greatness derives in large part from how good that actress is. she's playing a strong role, but she's basically playing a mother. not that there's anything wrong with that, but its not specified by much beyond the fact that she's domineering and she loves her son.

lol slocki

we're going to have to have a Rome vs. Deadwood poll eventually, you realize

not until I've watched all of Deadwood though. just been catching episodes here and there. is it just me or is the bad guy from live free or die hard/hitman not all terrible as an actor?