Things that suck I: Druggists refuse to give out birth control pills

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There really should be self-serve pharmacies anyway. Those guys take way too fucking long to put 30 pills in a jar.

dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 11 November 2004 16:07 (nineteen years ago) link

It's going to be hard to stifle a cheer if a liberal ever assassinates a [insert right wing nutter everyman here].

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 11 November 2004 16:07 (nineteen years ago) link

It is not so much the act ITSELF as the mindset that perpetrates it. I keep thinking about that part in Kill Bill where The Bride maims Julie Dreyfus with the honzo. Oh yeah.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 11 November 2004 16:10 (nineteen years ago) link

This happened at my school last year, when one of the nurses refused to hand out emergency contraception/morning after pill/EARLY ABORTION/whatever you're calling it. There's not always more than one nurse on duty at the health center, so with a 72-hour window for taking it this is pretty alarming and a lot of people on campus got really upset about this...there really wasn't anything we could do about it, though.

Maria (Maria), Thursday, 11 November 2004 16:46 (nineteen years ago) link

I think a fantastic political protest for this would be for pro-choice pharmacists to refuse to fill painkiller perscriptions.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 16:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Actually, just refuse to fill anything.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 16:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I need to start stocking up on birth control pills like some people do with canned foods.

Sarah McLusky (coco), Thursday, 11 November 2004 17:31 (nineteen years ago) link

keep your jesus off my penis song

Spinning Down Alone You Spin Alive (ex machina), Thursday, 11 November 2004 18:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Sarah trust me, you don't want to do that.

This is such bullshit, why the fuck would you become a doctor or pharmacist if you had moral issues with ANY health issue or procedure?

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 11 November 2004 18:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Sarah, just emigrate.

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 11 November 2004 18:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Why was it illegal for Kevorkian to exercise his "morality" ? At least in his case, the patients/(customers) agreed with his philosophy.

dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 11 November 2004 18:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Someone I knew in high school had very irregular and painful periods, and took the bc pill to regulate them. She went to a new doctor, who WOULD NOT PRESCRIBE THEM to unmarried girls! Hurrah for the girl's mother who called the doctor and ripped her a new one, and for the girl who took her business elsewhere.

Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:06 (nineteen years ago) link

I knew that going to that Christian Scientist pharmacist would be a bad idea.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:09 (nineteen years ago) link

If you're sick, you can just read yourself better.

dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, I was thinking about that too, Layna. I can think of at least two ILXors who have posted about having the same condition and being prescribed various forms of birth control to regulate it. I was also kind of appalled by the indication in that article that they were refusing to give a girl who had been raped Plan B.

I'm pretty sure this entire country has lost its shit completely, to be totally honest.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:18 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm with the "fuck, this makes me so mad I don't even know where to begin" contingent. omfckinggod. Was feminism just a trend that reached the mainstream for a few minutes and has now been forgotten? Like it's now just another subculture? I wonder sometimes, what with all this 2 steps back 1 step forward evidence. We can say "At least it's getting news coverage", but that's crap; it's not anywhere near enough.

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:46 (nineteen years ago) link

On a related note, I just learned from my sister that my dad is pro-life except in very extreme circumstances. :-(

Sarah McLusky (coco), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:54 (nineteen years ago) link

ask him if women who have abortions should be put in jail

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:58 (nineteen years ago) link

I think I'd rather just avoid the subject. Apparently, he got really mad about it when he was talking to her. He's a Democrat, but a fairly conservative one. I think his neighbors and brothers must have gotten to him. But yeah, sorry to derail the thread.

Sarah McLusky (coco), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:01 (nineteen years ago) link

We called in something for a patient the other day, who WAS NOT PREGNANT, and the pharmacist refused to fill it because she said "it looks like they're trying to induce an ABOOORTION." It was the first time anything like that had happened to us. Fuck the times.

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Obvious response, but:
Yet automatic weapons are sold every day...
Um, looks like someone's going to maybe shoot someone? Never!

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:24 (nineteen years ago) link

It seems like doctors, pharmacies etc should be CLEARLY LABELLED so that you don't go to the wrong one for the wrong thing. Need birth control? Go to the one labelled Not Loony.

Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:26 (nineteen years ago) link

anybody notice this bit:

"I refuse to dispense a drug with a significant mechanism to stop human life," says Karen Brauer, president of the 1,500-member Pharmacists for Life International.

DAMN NEAR EVERYTHING YOU DISPENSE CAN KILL PEOPLE.

kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Exactly! It's totally Loony how quickly history evaporates and/or alters - women were dying trying to induce abortions themselves using all sorts of drugstore meds. Hell, they still do it today b/c they don't know what else to do or feel it's too 'taboo' to ask for the morning-after pill. I always thought it was ridiculous that sex was classified as a sin, but, especially in light of the U.S. election results, I guess that's the case? I have fear.

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:36 (nineteen years ago) link

So you all are going to find out what the policy is on this at your local drugstore, right?

I haven't had a prescription in nearly ten years or else I'd be right there with you.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Just burn Texas. Just burn it. Fuck that fucking state.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:13 (nineteen years ago) link

I've said it before, TOM. You could set fire to that state tonight and it'd still look the same tomorrow morning.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:36 (nineteen years ago) link

I know that, I lived there for 5 fucking months.
Honestly several of the people I met there seemed quite nice.
But I could say the same for Florida.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Could we miss the part that has my cousin in it?

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:01 (nineteen years ago) link

The only downside to setting fire to Florida: everyone's grandparents live there.

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Mine don't! They're all dead except for my step-grandmother. :-(

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Pretty soon the earth is going to spit this country out into the far corners of the universe.

Je4nne Ć’ury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:22 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.georgewbushstore.com/images/601_6010.jpg

trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Woman: "What do you mean you won't give me my birth control pills?"
Druggist: "No, ma'am, those put an end to human life and I cannot support that. It's against the word of God."
Woman: "Can you tell me where the coat hangers are?"
Druggist: "Aisle 5"
Woman: "Thanks."

trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Another reason Texas should be blown to shit, and more things to generally get infuriated about. I'm really glad my archconservative idiot fuck coworker is off today.

http://www.cjr.org/issues/2004/6/mooney-science.asp

TOMBOT, Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:33 (nineteen years ago) link

These pharmacists should consider themselves lucky that so far pro-choice activists don't seem inclined to use rifles or bombs to get their opinions across.
Now I'm mad.

Personally, if this was going on anywhere around me, I'd just lob a brick or two through their windows in the middle of the night.

trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Now I feel like blowing Texas to shit, and I've never even been there.

RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:07 (nineteen years ago) link

I recall reading an article in Rolling Stone a while ago about these insane christian fundies who more or less stalked and harrased people involved in abortion clinics, as perilously close to the edge of the law as they could. They'd stand outside their homes day and night, stick up signs calling them baby murderers, and go round to all the stores the person patronised and tell the shopkeepers to stop serving them etc etc.

Well fuck this, if there is such a thing as the "Pharmacists for Life International" then this gives us a list of what pharmacies are involved in this ugly practice.

So people should serve it right back up to them. Don't just boycott them - picket them, harrass them, make their lives hell and put them out of business! I almost wish I lived in the US because if I did, I would seriously start organising such a thing.

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Trayce, a few family planning doctors have been killed in North Dakota - they were Minnesotans who flew/drove in to serve at the clinics part time.

I would have thought in the greater scheme of things that doctor's orders trumped pharmacist's wishes. If one was in a one-drugstore town with a zealot in charge and one could experience delays in treatment due to that person's obstruction, there are legal remedies there.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Aye, sadly we have even had some family planning clinic staff murdered here in Melbourne too - a security guard at one place a few years back was shot defending the staff from a mentally ill guy who burst in with a gun. Terrible. Extremist catholics picket a place I sometimes go by on my tram to work, I used to think that was a really US thing but it goes on here too.

I too would have thought there was some law around scrips that mean if a doctor's issued one, it must be filled, stuff wank what the chemist thinks. I guess not though. I sincerely hope it never comes to that here - but if it does I'll be first in line to organise protests against it. As someone who's had to be on the pill for medical rather than birth control reasons myself, this issue is very important to me.

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:41 (nineteen years ago) link

"Stuff wank"? I meant "stiff wank". For some reason.

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Hmm...I'd certainly never advocate throwing bricks through windows or forcing any private business to sell goods that they don't want to, but I don't see what right an individual pharmacist (unless they also own their shop) would have to arbitrarily refuse to fill some prescriptions. Regardless, it would certainly be bad business sense.

mouse (mouse), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:47 (nineteen years ago) link

For sure - I'd like to think people would find out and they'd lose business out of it.

Tho I've a sinking feeling that perhaps in some small or very close knit religious townships maybe it'd have the opposite effect :/ Also if it was the only one in town as someone said above... god how horrible. Aie, this whole thing upsets me.

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:50 (nineteen years ago) link

I have this menacing "Handmaids Tale" feeling about all this.

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:51 (nineteen years ago) link

But this is the age of online pharmacies and mail order drugs. I doubt that this is going to be a serious problem.

mouse (mouse), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Mm... thats a good point :)

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah well, not that that wouldn't suck arse. I had insurance for a while that for some inexplicable reason required that I mail order birth control pills (other drugs could be picked up at the pharmacy, mind). Can we get all het up about that sort of thing instead?

mouse (mouse), Friday, 12 November 2004 02:16 (nineteen years ago) link

I had insurance that refused to go through mail order/internet drugstores, actually.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 12 November 2004 02:20 (nineteen years ago) link

But this is the age of online pharmacies and mail order drugs. I doubt that this is going to be a serious problem.

This could be a very serious problem when it comes to Plan B emergency contraception, which has a limited window of opportunity. Online and mail-order pharmacies are not much help when you need a prescription filled right away.

j.lu (j.lu), Friday, 12 November 2004 03:38 (nineteen years ago) link

pharmacists are typically not intelligent enough to be doctors
so they should set their petty egos aside and shut the fuck up and do their job
because if they really knew better, they'd be writing prescriptions, not filing them

trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 12 November 2004 09:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Not in the state of NY, AFAIK. They're required to provide information on where to obtain such services if the doctor doesn't perform them for one reason or another.

Refusing to return a script is clearly in violation of the law, unless Texas has some really insane law codes that I am unaware of, Emily. That's grounds to revoke their licencing.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 12 November 2004 17:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Wouldn't you be able to have them arrested for theft for refusing to return the script? I would think so.

Leon the Fratboy (Ex Leon), Friday, 12 November 2004 17:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Hahaha. If militancy won't work, there's always our old friend bureacracy!

What is disturbing for me is a macro issue, that 'family values' is just diet feudalism and a feudal society is a retrograde step. I've been banging on at the New Feudalism for ages and now all the mainstream press here refers to ' bloodlines' when writing about nepotistic subjects, whether royalty, someone who's Isabella Rosselini's daughter or just from generations of Italian bakers. Feudalism entrenches class divisions and racial divisions on the basis of being part of 'the family' or not. Women are particularly subordinated or placed in 'power behing the throne' or if in power given 'queen bee' status.

Just think about it. Where is this GOING?

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 17:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Not in the state of NY, AFAIK. They're required to provide information on where to obtain such services if the doctor doesn't perform them for one reason or another.

Although I will point out that NY also has laws that require any insurance company who wants to issue policies in NY to cover ALL female reproductive issues, and not just pre- and post-natal care, so we might just be extraordinarily progressive. That being said, Arizona also requires doctors to provide full alternative information (including, of course, adoption information as well as abortion information and such). The law's ostensible intent is to protect OBGYNs who cannot perform the services due to lack of equipment et al but obviously also protects those who refuse to provide abortions for moral reasons.

xpost yeah that's basically what I'm implying, there are quite a few legal reasons why taking a script and neither filling it nor returning it to the patient is blatantly against the law and no amount of opt-out "Oh maybe the pharmacy doesn't have this medication" loophole laws can protect that.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 12 November 2004 17:53 (nineteen years ago) link

This could be a very serious problem when it comes to Plan B emergency contraception, which has a limited window of opportunity. Online and mail-order pharmacies are not much help when you need a prescription filled right away.

I wonder if this is something someone could keep on hand, in case of emergency?

Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Friday, 12 November 2004 17:57 (nineteen years ago) link

The problem with keeping Plan B (or any type of birth control) on hand is the expiration date. The effectiveness of any of these medications decreases exponentially by month the longer they are expired. If you kept it on hand, you would probably need to get a new script and a replacement yearly to keep yourself safe.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Would people buy a morning-after spray?

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:01 (nineteen years ago) link

(By "people" I mean women; I fear the thought of men stocking up on female birth control.)

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Hold on. They are minded to swipe the actual prescription from the woman if they disapprove of her choice?

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:02 (nineteen years ago) link

(Like I said, that goes for any of the hormonal birth controls so anyone who keeps packets of back up birth control pills, nuva rings, ortho evra, et al GO CHECK THE EXPIRATION DATE RIGHT NOW AND TOSS ANYTHING THAT EXPIRES 11/2004 OR EARLIER!! This Public Service Announcement has been brought to you by "The More You Know...")

xpost yeah, Suzy, that was an issue brought up in the article, or one of the ones posted, I believe, that a doctor or two initially refused to even return the script.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:03 (nineteen years ago) link

That's actionable if that's the case. Not much difference between that expression of personal moral beliefs and pinpricking their entire stock of condoms.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:05 (nineteen years ago) link

clearly they ought at least to have to return the prescription, i missed that part of the discussion. but there is a HUGE difference in doctors legally having to give prospective clients information on aboriton providers and legally having to BE abortion providers. no one seems to mind that doctors have this discretion. maybe pharmacists could be made to give information on pharmacies that fill such prescriptons?

Emilymv (Emilymv), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, that's the gist here, same as the social worker argument. If a social worker is working on a case and it turns out to be a family member or a friend (ie they might have some kind of moral or emotional stake in the issue) they are meant to turn over the case to someone else. This is a clear cut issue in the legal system, and I don't see why this is being handled as a delicate matter in regards to health service providers, who are also state-licenced and sanctioned. I have no problem* with a pharmacist refusing to fill a prescription for any medication he or she feels is wrong for some reason but the fact that they aren't providing any further information (especially in smaller, less populated areas where a person might very well find it difficult to locate somewhere that might have the medications in question) and that some of them feel fit to confiscate the scripts is another matter altogether.

* No problem here is a misnomer. I do have a problem with someone entering the health industry with a clear cut moral agenda against scientifically accepted procedures, as I really don't understand why someone would BECOME an OBGYN if they refuse to deal with any reproductive issues besides carried-out pregnancies and will not prescribe any preventative measures, but it's really not my job to tell people they shouldn't get involved in a profession if they have some kind of moral objection to major sections of what the profession involves.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:43 (nineteen years ago) link

(This is a very informative thread and I thank y'all.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link

it does seem strange for someone with such extreme views to choose those professions. on the other hand, maybe the moral code was developed later in life, after the career was underway.

Emilymv (Emilymv), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link

am I the only person who sees that the variety of services provided by doctors is like 100 times greater than the variety of services provided by pharmacists?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:56 (nineteen years ago) link

with related questions of expertise and skill?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 12 November 2004 18:57 (nineteen years ago) link

I have no problem* with a pharmacist refusing to fill a prescription for any medication he or she feels is wrong for some reason..

I don't have a problem with it when there is a drugstore on every corner .. Unfortunately, again, the argument leaves out poorer people in smaller cities, suburban or rural locations who may have to travel a fur piece to get to another pharmacy. And without owning a car and without public transportation available.

So for that reason, I'm against a pharmacist or doctor intervening in such a way.

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 12 November 2004 19:01 (nineteen years ago) link

anyone in a rural area GET OUT NOW

dave q (listerine), Friday, 12 November 2004 19:06 (nineteen years ago) link

i certainly don't agree with them (those refusing to precribe or fill said prescriptions) but i don't think that they should be forced to act against their morals either. perhaps the problem dave mentioned could be avoided by the doctor filling the prescriptions knowing beforehand which pharmacy would fill it.

Emilymv (Emilymv), Friday, 12 November 2004 19:12 (nineteen years ago) link

..or having a pharmacy located at the doctor's office .. but there's a whole issue with competition and free trade, etc, etc.. But just knowing that "yes, the CVS in Pixley will fill that for you" doesn't do much good when you live in Hooterville. (Although I think the cannonball does make daily stops in Pixley.)

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 12 November 2004 19:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Most OBGYNs (and even general family practitioners who do basic OBGYN services) get tons of free samples from pharmaceutical companies of various birth control methods. My doctor in NYC had no problem handing us like three months worth of samples each visit just in case (you can't get to the pharmacy immediately, you forgot to refill the prescription, whatever). Is this not the same in less urban areas? I imagine they would get samples too, though maybe not in the same magnitude as "busier" (and higher-priced) urban doctors, I imagine the doctors could help lessen the problem by distributing more of the samples to women in areas where there are less pharmacies as a precautionary measure against zealous pharmacists? It's not really a solution but it would help avoid the problem of these women who are ending up missing pills and being at risk because of this situation of having to hunt for a new pharmacy.

Also, Planned Parenthoods generally have limited pharmacies located within them as well...again this doesn't really HELP women who are in areas with only a small number of pharmacies to choose from, where a Planned Parenthood might be hours away.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 12 November 2004 22:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Obviously distributing more samples in less populated areas which are more likely to get this pharmacy problem has utterly no financial incentive for the pharmaceutical companies so this might be a huge stumbling block in my interim solution.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 12 November 2004 22:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Most hospitals have a pharmacy in them too.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 22:20 (nineteen years ago) link


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