semi surreal casual racism - dud, or dud and it does yer fukcing head in a bit as well?

It was originally broadcast in 72 and is thankfully over very quickly, but it does annoy, when it's totally incidental to the story which is otherwise masterfully told and had me quite goosebumpy at the start of the final sequence.

Also when WHYSAB was reissued on Creation, it was called "Love Your Enemies", similarly irony-riddled.

OK, this individual example is not "worse than South Africa" on a scale of racism, but it was just such shocking to see racism applied on a social and economic scale the same as if it were institutionalised. Having racism out in the open makes it much easier to fight or combat. Having covert and hypocritical racism seems just so much more insidious.

mmmm, this kind of middle-class elitism is barely better than racism or misogyny. i am the aforementioned "prole scum" and am pretty offended by this - anyhow, i´m on a deadline so am not going to get too deep into this.

I know that at nearly 40 I should be able to tune stupidity like this out

Absolutely not - the sooner everyone calls racists what they are the better.

I don't understand the association you're making between class and racism. Some 'proles' -- and I've heard that used with such hate that it can never for me be 'descriptive -- are racist; but so are many of the middle class, even if they don't use racist language.

Does 'prole' ever get used except as a derogatory term for working-class people?

(xpost with Enrique)

Argh.

It is Friday afternoon, I still have a residual hangover, and we're talking about racism, classism and sexism. TOO HEAVY!!! TOO HEAVY!!!

I'm off to go hang out on the crush threads or something. Nigel, save me.

The nerve of the person! "Dirty Mexicans" my ass. You're more likely to run into a snobbish and loud Mexican who cannot stand one speck of dirt on their perfectly coiffured hair than a "dirty Mexican". Geez Louise, if you're going to stereotype, at least use an updated stereotype! ;)

No really, though, what this person said is deeply offensive, especially to people such as myself, but I'm not really going to waste my time or energy being angry at her. She's just highly ignorant, and the rest of Latin America isn't exactly better than Mexico anyway, which is at least a "second world" country that is, like India and Malaysia, in the midst of their own Industrial Revolution. "Dirty Mexican" -- hah. "Macho, Posturing Mexican" would be more accurate. *laughs*

Say what you like about Julie Burchill, at least she's called people on this.

Dave's point about people who feel disenfranchised picking on the even less privileged is spot on, but I don't have respect for people who perpetuate a cycle of bullying whatever their parents did or where they come from. It makes me more, not less, likely to label a bully-in-turn stupid, scummy or both. It obscures the more pernicious racist elements in the governing/corporate classes who like it that brown people are even cheaper to run than paranoid working white folks who can't follow puppet strings to their logical end.

I think it's relevant to point out that racism is actioned differently by different social classes in most cases. The rich/influential racist makes policy and economic choices which benefit whites (see: slavery, sweatshops, Colonialism, 'let's call 'em asylum seekers' etc.); the middle classes are the ones in management roles who can't quite see why they have to change the syllabus (or be changed by the syllabus) or give the job to someone better qualified than their white golf buddy eg. institutionalised racism; the working/prole/tabloid classes throw the words around and the blows, too, and are made stupid and paranoid by the better educated and better paid, who become the people electing BNP councillors. They are utter TOOLS in every sense of the word. Obviously there are some examples of crossover behaviour but largely I believe this structuring to be correct.

x-post w. n

i guess that´s what i am!

Class:Cultural:Economic

Bourgeois != 'Middle Class'

But - hey, perhaps things have changed a leetle since 1844?

Norman's post is a great one. it reminds me VERY much of elevator convos among almost universally "older" men about wanting to bend the secretary over the back of a chair, etc and feeling expected to grin and join in. ladies you would not BELIEVE what guys will say to each other about you. but if you ever actually get down with one of them and their mate's like "so how was it??" you'd be amazed at how quickly they change the subject!!

(he said, casually chucking the elephant in the room into the stagnant pol-economy millpond)

Dan - It's the language, but also the assumption a) about race and b) that other whites will appreciate a). It's surreal because it's relatively unusual behaviour (among ILX0rs) and because, I dunno, it seems so... odd. An odd thing to say, since as a racial assumption it's a bit receherche. It's not one I've heard.

Face it, the one's that got shipped over from Africa weren't the Albert Einsteins. Look at the gene pool in this country. They were living in the jungle with stone tools. The smart ones caught the slow ones and sent them over. They were selected for hard work. There are some smart "black" people, sure. But not the rule. More cross breeding will help.

John Wiley Price says dumb things a lot, but I still kind of like him. The worst part of his occasional misplaced outrage is the inevitable response from white talk radio hosts and columnists.

when barack obomba is president
this stuff will seem mild
get ready for war, white folks
the 3rd world is upon you

its really bizarre that two black guys in dallas would be so responsive to the possibility of racism in casual speech

After reading those comments I kind of can't wait for the inevitable white race riot.

Can someone remind me what Roger's real name was? I have this fear that I might one day wind up writing/talking about his music without remembering which one is him.

-- nabisco, Tuesday, July 1, 2008 11:36 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Link

http://www.media.wmg-is.com/media/portal/media/cms/images/200807/waiting-in-vain--cover-art-large_1214935958225.jpg

lol ezra pound

that's got to be one of the stupidest stories I've ever heard. If the idiot commissioner and the judge don't know that that term has absolutely no racial ramifications, then they're fucking idiots.

-- Bill Magill, Friday, July 11, 2008 3:40 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

good time to take a self-righteous stand!

"self righteous" -great call

god if this keeps up ilx is going to turn into a whore

i mean hole, a black hole

ILX has turned into a singularity whence even light may not escape.

woops yeah i just meant regular-righteous
good catch!

Casual Anti-Semitism: Was eating at a local Indian spot recently and got to chatting with the owner (it was a slow afternoon for them). A really nice, funny guy. Talk of the upcoming US Elections. He: "Obama won't win. You know why? Because the Jews won't let him win." I didn't know what to say. It spilled out of his mouth as simply as if he had said, " You know why I own a restaurant? Because I like to serve food." Needless to say, I've found it impossible to go back.

-- Capitaine Jay Vee, Friday, 11 July 2008 20:57 (2 days ago) Link

After some of the tactics the Clinton campaign tried in the primary, this is not an unreasonable point, but should be qualified as "Israel lobby". Of course, that's probably not precisely what he meant.

Most frustrating thing about the "black hole" video clip is that the anchors were too cowed to inject an explicit opinion or to state the objective fact that there is no nor has there ever been a racial connotation to that term.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2008/08/15/460Spain_gesture.jpg

you'd think they might've heard of this thing called 'the internet'

andre agassi?

no - chinese people, i think?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/15/olympics2008.olympicstennis

Racism in spain

So the racism in Spain falls mainly on the plain?

-- jaymc (jaymc), Monday, February 27, 2006 12:41 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

It's seriously weird, the Spanish thing. A few weeks ago I was DJing at our night and I went to the bathroom, which is unisex, where there's a bathroom attendant guy, Simon, who is black. A Spanish guy and his girlfriend were ahead of me in the queue and as if out of boredom they started kind of taunting him and riling him and going "Africa, Africa......" etc.

Was just the most bizarre and fucking nasty racism from people who looked like students, I felt so angry I ended up telling the bouncer, who kicked them out.

-- Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:14 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

proto HOOS

jk but seriously what the fuck is up with Spain

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eim29tQWAAEryRx?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

not a joke. i took that screenshot. you can try it yourself.