The Sopranos Vs. The Wire

in some ways Melfi is the one character who is never entirely corrupted by him - she's the only one who resists/says "no" to him (at the end of the series when she says she'll no longer see him), and survives.

it's the 90s guy in me, but i like that the sopranos acknowledges the amount of fantasy regular folk like melfi's friends (ie bho viewers) invest in the criminal life. the wire could have done this but does not. i don't think there are any hbo viewers in the show. (this doesn't make the sopranos better, im just sayin.)

the ending of the sopranos is immense. jesus! the only bit i'd change is meadow parking the car.

in some ways Melfi is the one character who is never entirely corrupted by him - she's the only one who resists/says "no" to him (at the end of the series when she says she'll no longer see him), and survives.

Hahaha just like the non-audience, free of morbid curiosity! I am just goofing around here, but your last two posts could be read as an argument for why it makes someone morally superior to not watch the show. (That doesn't include me, I watched it, I just didn't enjoy it.)

xpost - I mean, I was thinking a lot yesterday about how much we always love to see people troll the public, as if by loving it we are "in" on the joke and not part of the public being trolled -- I'm not sure it's a good thing that we congratulate people for feeling important enough to thumb their noses at the very people who are the reason they are important in the first place....

did you watch and not enjoy the ENTIRE SERIES?

i dont think the end of the sopranos is trolling, or a fuck-you to the fans, at all.

yeah me neither

its very consistent with the rest of the show in terms of suspense, pacing, reference points, etc.

it's more like an affirmation that this show was never about neat closure, like it or not

Yeah, s1ocki, I'm just responding to the argument above -- I was sufficiently convinced they thought it was a solid dramatic ending, though I'm not sure I'd agree.

Also I would estimate that I saw ... more than half of total Sopranos episodes, from the beginning through the end, with most of the drop-off happening around two-thirds of the way through the series? I would blame my dislike on irregular viewing, except that there were times I'd see whole continuous seasons and like it even less.

i think the thing that kind of makes me feel the opposite is the longstanding i am serious film guy obsession w/ mafia movies -- ya guys i agree godfather is unimpeachable classic but its such an overdone thing at this pt. and yeah i know they added a lot of fresh twists because obv great writing and i do think its a good show but that doesnt change the fact that the mob boss gangster movie cliche is pretty unoriginal

― K DEF FROM REAL LIVE (deej), Tuesday, December 16, 2008 6:48 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

that's totes unfair, gangster shit is as old as movies and ppl are still finding new things to do with it and really you could use the same argument against the wire with its cops & robbers premise... both shows just take the genre as their starting point.

― s1ocki, Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:26 AM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yah its not fair to the degree that someone shouldnt dismiss a show bcuz of it, im just explaining the reason behind my preference for the wire -- not claiming anyone has to agree w/ me here. sorry if that sounds cop-out-y

i dont think the wire really has a cops and robbers premise. its an entire city, cast of thousands. it 'more than transcends' cops + robbers shows -- and also i should point out cops and robbers + drug trade has a much more proportionate impact on more ppl than this single strain of italian mobster films which are hugely represented in critically acclaimed cinema thruout the years

im just not that interested in ppl using that template still -- the wire feels a lot more original for that reason, to me

melfi is basically saying, "fuck you, you'll never change, go enjoy the rest of your life" because she realizes tony is just there looking for justification more than cure, which she probably knew all along but finally just told him to go away.

Tony's there for all sorts of reasons. His rationale for continuing the relationship changes throughout the show, but its primarily him adopting different angles to try and break her facade and make her complicit in his life.

i dont think the wire really has a cops and robbers premise. its an entire city, cast of thousands. it 'more than transcends' cops + robbers shows -- and also i should point out cops and robbers + drug trade has a much more proportionate impact on more ppl than this single strain of italian mobster films which are hugely represented in critically acclaimed cinema thruout the years

― K DEF FROM REAL LIVE (deej), Tuesday, December 16, 2008 6:09 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ya man, i just cant get with the whole More Important Subject thing... just dont judge art that way... however, in terms of personal pref, totally horses for courses and i could see how an arresting subject matter could draw you in more

also "subject is broadly similar to several critically acclaimed films" is kind of a weak criticism

yah i dont mean to imply this is always the case or that an unfamiliar context is necessarily a bad thing -- like sometimes something totally alien to my experience can draw me in even more -- but in this case its already so heavily used as a context in Serious Film history that it sorta predisposes me to not being enthusiastic about it

i think for me personally tbh the whole "cynical story, likeable characters, + sliver of hope for some of them" thing with the wire probably is the key factor in it winning over the sopranos and its entirely unlikeable bunch and the show's hopeless outlook for them.

also your name is omar little

also "subject is broadly similar to several critically acclaimed films" is kind of a weak criticism

― s1ocki, Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:15 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dont think so per se! i mean the reason ppl complain about autotune isnt because one artist used it but because so many are using it

i wouldn't call the final sopranos 'trolling' or a 'fuck you' but i think they knew what kind of reactions they'd get from some quarters

i mean even marlo stanfield is more "likeable" to me in some ways than anyone on the sopranos except for a couple of exceptions, imo.

wow if that is the case i will probably not make it thru the sopranos. :(

i dont think so per se! i mean the reason ppl complain about autotune isnt because one artist used it but because so many are using it

― K DEF FROM REAL LIVE (deej), Tuesday, December 16, 2008 6:17 PM (34 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so if someone made this incredible song with autotune you'd still complain about it?

lol well there is hope for one character, i think, and it's a pretty good ride nonetheless xp

haha no but i like the sopranos xp

i dont know, i mean the sopranos characters are despicable but they are likeable at the same time, in the sense that they are mostly charismatic and draw you in and you want to see what they'll do next. dont worry horseshoe you can handle it

I'm not sure it's a good thing that we congratulate people for feeling important enough to thumb their noses at the very people who are the reason they are important in the first place....

most artists worth their salt do this though, don't they? to wrest creative control back from the distracting and usu conservative expectations of fans, even if they may have had a role in creating them. And sometimes, like possibly w/ sopranos, it may just be about staying true to the art and not primarily abour screwing with people. this must be diff in some way i'm missing im thinking.

so true though that it is natural to align with the artist and get some vicarious thrill in thinking that lol everyone else must be so totally perplexed right now, even if that imagined group is really some marginal minority and you're actually trolling next to nobody with an army of blinkered & self-satisfied dicks.

man, i really hope this isn't the case. it seems kind of stupid to spend all this time/life/energy working on something and then you get to the end and think to yourself: you know what. fuck it. it's just a TV show. let's have some onion rings.

― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 16 December 2008 17:56 (23 minutes ago) Permalink

I love endings like this!

I also love onion rings

so is everybody expecting the Wire to end all neatly wrapped up like a nice little package? I'm just curious.

the sopranos characters are despicable but they are likeable at the same time, in the sense that they are mostly charismatic and draw you in and you want to see what they'll do next

Alluded to this above, but I suspect this right here is the nugget at the core of other stuff that doesn't work for me -- I don't get this charisma or drawing-in at all, and am having a hard time thinking of even one non-Carmela character from the show I would not take the stairs to avoid riding an elevator with

it already ended xp

it already ended

so is everybody expecting the Wire to end all neatly wrapped up like a nice little package? I'm just curious.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:23 PM (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

its already ended bro. u should really see it

its already ended

btw

the show ended

xp

shakey i would not read this thread tbh, if you really want to see it, which you should

btw the wire ended months ago

the show ended fyi

hey guys how do u think the wire will end??

omar little eatin an onion ring

in a dream sequence where stringer bell appears as a fish

musical number

lolz its on my list of things to see guys, don't worry

what was that movie with gandolfini -- romance and cigarettes? i thought that was pretty good. had lots of musical numbers

I was far less upset by this thread spoiling the end of the Sopranos than I was the Wire. I stopped watching Sopranos about season four, keep meaning to finish, but just don't feel bothered.

what are some great onion ring moments in television

that fukkin times article giving away the wire spoiler is still blowing my mind -- who the fuck does something like that