Irish politics discussion thread

i jest, i jest. Kinda.

He lasted longer than most people expected, i suppose.

The decision to keep working was an interesting one.

he had form in denying the inevitable realities.

God, it's a whitewash out there atm. Unsurprising, a young man with a young family passes away, and not in an easy manner- but his political legacy can't be rewritten because of his illness/death. They should probably leave it out of the platitudes altogether.

Too soon, i suppose. I'm probably racking up the irish sb's.

It's incredible that he was making a serious attempt to be FF leader six months after most doctors thought he'd be dead. Can't fault the optimism.

The whitewash is to be expected, and won't last long. I don't know whether he'll be seen in the long term as a decent-enough guy who was incapable of dealing with a set of circumstances beyond the control of anyone in his party or someone who made a bad situation exponentially worse. I get the impression that there was a level of residual respect for him in a lot of quarters, even if only in comparison to the rest of FF.

you're right of course. I'll just grit me teeth for a week.

I think labelling ahern, cowen, lenihan et al as merely misguided or incompetent is possibly naive.

Bertie was a wrong 'un. No question.

I'm slightly more inclined to believe that Cowen and Lenihan were victims of circumstance, to a degree, but they all bear at least some moral responsibility for their complicity in a patently rotten system.

it's all the bank guarantee, that's where the country was brought into it. That's brian's baby i'm afraid

That's true, and will define whatever legacy he has. I'm not really defending him but i have a sliver of sympathy for anyone dealing with the house of cards that Ahern and the bankers left behind, even if they were in a position to do more about it while it was being constructed.

oh god don't mention the c word

lol

Can't believe this isn't working

lol

Any sign that other ratings agencies might downgrade?

not really, reports seem to have it as a bit of a pre-emptive move tbh

course, if markets react badly...?

cross ref with the abuse thread, but feel like enda was strong today.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0721/1224301063509.html

I agree, I was very impressed by him and I've never voted FG in my life.

hadn't read the full thing until just now.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0721/1224301061733.html

booming imo

bout time people started using the word "rape"

abuse is far too kind to these guys

yep.

In one case, the abuser even officiated at the victim’s own wedding

pretty horrible

cant even process tbh.

v well written speech, credit enda's speechwriter.

party political stuff devalued it tho

bout time people started using the word "rape"

yes

xp maybe so, but tbf in context he's announcing a pretty radical departure in attitude towards dealing with the church on this and maybe other issues, and it's correct to note that FF have been complicit in the obfuscation of the church/state divide not just historically, but up to eg the agreement to indemnify the church against the cost of legal settlements as recently as 2002 and since then a marked reluctance to challenge clerical law as a relevant factor in any of this.

The previous govt failed to address these issues, and these issues are an intolerable disgrace. While noting that the state had responsibility for its failings, i think it's allowable and fair to point out that it was a previous administration that allowed the muddy waters to stay muddy for so long.

bout time people started using the word "rape"

that worked out pretty well, huh?

god help me but apts in dublin are beginning to look like half decent value

prime time going in on nama. Informative but not great analysis.

Has anyone been watching The Rise And Fall Of Fianna Fail?

Not sure how much light it sheds but its proving good value on the sniping and self-justification fronts. The brass neck of Bertie's 'nothing to do with me' routine is amazing.

that's not a new routine tbf, haven't seen this tho

ShariVari is not one of us, hence his astonishment at obvious lols like the Bertie routine.

I enjoyed Celia's digs, a lot.

It's on TV3's site but not streaming outside Ireland as far as I can tell.

ShariVari is not one of us

in what way is he or she not One Of Us?

I'm English so a lot of the politics is relatively new to me.

wtf

avaunt

avaunt ye sassenach i ses

Have won over gyac's mammy. Will win over the rest of you yet.

a displayname slagging peter crouch is, admittedly, a fine start

ira president?

lolling v hard and enjoying these disbelieving shutin pricks

poll

o'donoghue ahern mansergh

I see McGuinness has trotted out the "West Brit" insult directed at anyone who doesn't feel comfortable with one of the former Army Council chiefs as our* head of state.

*Not that I get a fucking vote, I bet.

he has? Wtg mairtin that'll show em

Yes. Apparently he's fine to answer questions about the past though, if the time period in question is restricted to the last two years.

keep it relevant, be fair

I bet he has loads of opinions about Jedward!

was kinda hoping he'd run an open and honest campaign, he has a lot to gain that way imo. Getting agg-defensive on day two makes this a pointless exercise

"vote for me and i'll tell the grieving families where their loved ones are buried?"

hahahaha

you'd want a promise that he'll not kill anyone during the term too