Words, usages, and phrases that annoy the shit out of you...

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But wait, what if you met someone, and he told you his name and it required un-American-Heartland pronunciation rules -- would you mangle it on principle just because YOU don't SPEAK Farsi or whatever? For me this is a respect issue: names is names. So "muslim/moslem" isn't a proper name, granted, but I think there's some latitude.

"Muslim" is a word in the English langauge, yes, it was originally from Arabic but it's now an English word - like Kayak or something... and you don't pronounce that with an Inuit accent

― Diddyismus the Blind (of Alexandria) (Dada), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

this may be the wrong thread for what i'm about to say, but i'm soooo fucking sick and tired of people who are proud of their ignorance making excuses for never wanting to learn anything.

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

i say "krahft - verk," cuz that's how it's pronounced ... i say "byork," one syllable, rhymes with "new york."

So why don't you pronounce Bjork like it's pronounced, too? (Rhymes with "work.")

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

French people don't say "hamburger," they say "'amboorgare." Is that 'incorrect'? No, it's a French version of an English word, just like "Crayaftwork" or whatever is an English version of a German word.

xpost, first of all, it's not "dumbing it down," that's what I'm trying to say. Secondly, what's gained is not having to overanalyze and correct how people naturally speak and just letting them communicate, which is what language is for in the first place.

― n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

"kayak" is a word in english because the people who write the english dictionaries say so and they went into an office and talked it out and came up with a "correct" english pronunciation.

So why don't you pronounce Bjork like it's pronounced, too? (Rhymes with "work.")

i don't wanna overdo it. plus, i hate bjork. fuck her.

French people don't say "hamburger," they say "'amboorgare." Is that 'incorrect'?

yes.

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

No it isn't if you're French

― Diddyismus the Blind (of Alexandria) (Dada), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

No, it's a French version of an English word

Or a French version of an English version of a German word.

― theantmustdance (theantmustdance), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

"kayak" is a word in english because the people who write the english dictionaries say so and they went into an office and talked it out and came up with a "correct" english pronunciation.

Errrrrrrrrrrr, not really how these things work you'll find

― Diddyismus the Blind (of Alexandria) (Dada), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:20 (twenty years ago)

I guess I just take into account what the majority of educated people say. The majority of Americans say CRAFT-WORK, so that's what I say. It's not like I intentionally say "Jack Chy-rack" when referring to the French president -- nobody actually says that, even if it's "more American-sounding."

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)

I've seen lately that really bugs me is "preznit" instead of "president." Is this supposed to imply some kind of disrespect or belief in the illegitimacy of Bush's presidency? Because it just makes you look like an idiot.

Yeah, it's stupid and annoying. It's like spelling crazy with a k.

― Leon C. (Ex Leon), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

Lately: "thot" or "thort" for "thought." Looks stupid.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:28 (twenty years ago)

http://homepage2.nifty.com/fattytaka/photopeggy006400.gif vs http://vision.york.ac.uk/articles/135/politics/images/bush.jpeg

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

(Björk vs BORK)

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

I say "kraftwerk"

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)

Let's just not mention her name at all, it's easier that way

― Diddyismus the Blind (of Alexandria) (Dada), Friday, 19 August 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)

Foreign-word pronunciation: for me it basically depends whether you're being asked to make sounds that aren't in the everyday range of the English language. With Iran, for instance, there's no reason not to say it properly, or at least near-properly. Both syllables are fairly normal ones for Americans to pronounce; you're not asked to put on any sort of matching accent or add any non-domestic flourishes. It's simply a matter of knowing (or not-knowing) how it's meant to be pronounced.

Whereas with Kraftwek you are kind of asked to make some unusual sounds -- and, in the case of the "kraaaft-vairk" types Jaymc is talking about, to affect an unfamiliar method of pronouncing familiar phonemes. So I tend to say "craft - verk," which, when pronounced American-English style, is almost completely indistinguishable from "craft - work."

I.e. rule = if you can say it naturally in your normal English-based speaking voice, then do it. If you can't, don't sweat it. (Though I'm never particularly annoyed by people who know how to say things "right," unless they seem to be making a big show of it.)

(This reminds me of my high school civics teacher, who'd get on all the Mexican students' cases about Americanized pronunciation: "Your name is not Flow-rez, it is FlorES!")

― nabiscothingy, Friday, 19 August 2005 16:52 (twenty years ago)

Also reminds me of the prof I had in college who ran with the old-school British pedagogical condition of willfully mispronouncing all foreign words as they'd be in written English, so that midway through a very erudite lecture the whole class looked up: "Did he just say 'Don Quick-sote?'"

NB my rule on this is informed by the fact that there is a hard S sound in my name that I can successfully pronounce on maybe 10% of attempts, and even then only if I let myself sound like a total jackass trying. I certainly can't expect other people to say it properly, so the most I ask is that people say things as well as they can within their usual phonetic sets.

― nabiscothingy, Friday, 19 August 2005 17:09 (twenty years ago)

I say Kraftwerk but sometimes I say Kroftvaerk in a robot voice just to amuse myself. On the other hand I say Vim Venders and feel really stupid doing it but I feel equally stupid saying Wim Wenders. You can't vin.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 19 August 2005 17:16 (twenty years ago)

who here today was told to shoot an email over to someone, or at someone? did you have to adjust your aim?

― kingfish fucked up his login (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 19 August 2005 17:18 (twenty years ago)

The only other thing I'm going to say is that you're all going to have ulcers by the time you're 35.

― n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 19 August 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)

n/a OTM. Let it go. It seems like another way to be a judgmental snob. And there are so many better ways.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:01 (twenty years ago)

My mind is a blank.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:02 (twenty years ago)

On the other hand I say Vim Venders and feel really stupid doing it but I feel equally stupid saying Wim Wenders.

Haha, see I totally say Vim Venders, because I've never ever heard anyone pronounce those W's Anglo-style.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:03 (twenty years ago)

Reading discussions of pronunciation that do not involve the IPA.

TORTURE.

― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:08 (twenty years ago)

Put a schwa on my keyboard and then we'll talk.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

word. you can download IPA fonts from SIL.org. i'm not sure they're going to work in here.

― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

Rereading the word "schwa": are there any other five-letter words where the only vowel is in the fifth position? Odd.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

schmo

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

schtick and other words starting with scht- and schn-

twelfth is the only word that has ccvccc, i think. (/th/ is one phoneme)

― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

ps - i meant to add "in English" -- i cannot speak for all of the world's languages.

― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:30 (twenty years ago)

oops. those aren't word-final vowels. nevermind.

― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:31 (twenty years ago)

xpost right, okay

"Schmo" is good. Amanda, I said "five-letter words." The thing that's interesting about it to me is that the vowel is at the very end and nowhere else.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

that's why i said oops. oooooooooooooooops. oopsie. whoops!

― The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I know, I just typed that out, though, and didn't want to delete it!

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:38 (twenty years ago)

six-letter word="shrdlu"

― M. V. (M.V.), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

I cheated and used dictionary.com. Interestingly, schwa is German from Hebrew and schmo is yiddish so there are probably similar words elsewhere in Yiddish, German or Hebrew.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 19 August 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

I catch myself saying a lot of things that really annoy me, but these are some that I hate way too much to ever say:

"Up-side the head"

Anything with the word "munch" as the root.

when people type the words "sigh", or "shrug". If you went through the trouble to type 'shrug', maybe it kind of negates the whole fucking thing?

When people say or type "gotcha".

"Howdy"
"Okeedokee"

Any catchphrases from old comedies such as Wayne's World, Ace Ventura, or Austin Powers, will cause me to reconsider our friendship.

― recovering optimist (Royal Bed Bouncer), Friday, 19 August 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

Anything with the word "munch" as the root.

munchkin?

NOT! (as if.)

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 19 August 2005 20:35 (twenty years ago)

when people type the words "sigh", or "shrug". If you went through the trouble to type 'shrug', maybe it kind of negates the whole fucking thing?

Oh, if this thread were about annoying internet words and phrases, I would have much more to contribute here.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 19 August 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

In general, Americanisms perpetrated by British people are always annoying - I've heard people say "on the weekend" instead of "at the weekend" for instance.

But Americans don't say "on the weekend" (which strikes me as interchangeable with "at the weekend" in its Britishness); they say, "over the weekend."

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 19 August 2005 20:53 (twenty years ago)

one that I've seen lately that really bugs me is "preznit" instead of "president." Is this supposed to imply some kind of disrespect or belief in the illegitimacy of Bush's presidency?

no. it has a very specific origin, and came into use by members of a community who understood and referred back to that origin. it implies, if anything, disrespect for the hands-off approach the media takes with respect to the administration.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 19 August 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

here's what i'm missing on kraftwerk - isn't the German word derived from the English? aren't they the ones pronouncing it wrong in the first place?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 19 August 2005 21:06 (twenty years ago)

um, no.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 19 August 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

naw, it means "power station" in German

― The King's English (sexyDancer), Friday, 19 August 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

Oh shit, it just occurred to me that my screen name should be pronounced Valter. Good thing I've never had occasion to say it out loud.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 19 August 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

does kraftwerk mean something other than craftwork? i've never felt reverential about the band, so i see no need to be reverential about the name. (xpost, i see)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 19 August 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

perhaps many who pronounce it in Americanized fashion make the same mistake i did

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 19 August 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

I'm sure the american homophone was not lost on Messers Hutter & Florian.

― The King's English (sexyDancer), Friday, 19 August 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

er, Schnieder

― The King's English (sexyDancer), Friday, 19 August 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

KRAFTWERK? I LOOOOVE KRAFTWERK!

http://www.mcb.com.hk/online/image/upload/9/power_station.jpg

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 19 August 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

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