NAMING RIGHTS THREAD: Liverpool really won't win the Premiership 2010-2011

It's just politics, though. Politics and propaganda. They tell you what you want to hear: 'we're not only different, we're also special'.

'This is a unique football club and I'm delighted to have the opportunity to help build something special here again.'

Says Rotherham's new assistant manager, Archie Blenkinsop.

It's not a football thing, it's an almost spiritual thing and is probably related to Liverpool fans believing their own propaganda about Liverpool being 'different' or 'special' rather than just a very successful club.

This'll happen with United once the Ferguson era is over. I think it's the combination of huge success and tragedy than does it.

Liverpool fans believing their own propaganda about Liverpool being 'different' or 'special' rather than just a very successful club

lol sorry but

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11MQnQ8QjJs

liverpool are different and special...surely a chelsea fan would know this!

no other english club has the same vibe as you see in that video.

this is why rafa is loved too, cos the whole 2005 thing played into the manic passion and failure/success craziness blood pact of the fans and the club...the final itself couldn't have been more modern day liverpool.

Everyone thinks their club is different and special.

Well, we all try to make sense of the things that happen to us, and one way is through a sort of quasi-mystical belief in fate and the like. Liverpool fans can't accept that they were successful simply because of boring things like picking the best manager at the right moment, and then being in a position to sustain that over a number of decades.

You see it with psychogeographers, who ignore all the sociological, historical and topographical reasons that explain why certain areas retain certain characteristics and instead try to pin it all on Blake.

it's not about why they were successful, and yes everyone does think their club is different and special, but liverpool have atmosphere and culture which lots of other clubs don't. are we really arguing all clubs are exactly the same? barcelona are more exciting as a club than hull city too, and they were when they were in relegation zone too.

a wild idea...history might actually count for something??

'no other english club has the same vibe as you see in that video.'

I've heard countless grounds as loud or louder than that over the years - including Stamford Bridge, back in the day - but because it's not Liverpool, with its self-fullfilling bullshit mythology, nobody goes on and on and on and on about.

I've also seen Anfield on big occasions be every bit as quiet as the Bridge or the Emirates. Funnily enough, that - along wityh the damp squib final of 2007 - never really makes it into the 'We Are Special' narrative.

Every club is equally special, or not special at all depending on your level of cynicism that day.

'liverpool have atmosphere and culture which lots of other clubs don't'

No you don't, you just talk about it more.

especially when yer in a period of sustained underperformance vs yr historical heights

All of this is true, in any sphere, from football thru to nationalism, but it doesnt make it ok for rafa to ride it for personal gain as opposed to doing his job

right so all clubs are the same, sure.

patriotism is the last refuge etc, and the sentiment's the same wrt tribalism over football clubs ime

so why do we have these discussions then?

Hull City fans seem pretty manic to me, but there's less of them with less history to be excited about. This creates difference, sure, but "history" is a relative thing. My old man claims that Liverpool were more or less fuck all prior to the Shankley era - contingency creates mythology i think.

i.e. all football is a kind of "Whig history" where fans think about their club's past only in relation to their present, and re-emphasise facts accordingly

plus you can shun patriotism but you can't claim that individual countries don't have major differences (yes they're frequently exaggerated or expressed in the form of archaic and stupid stereotypes, but they still exist)

x-post

liverpool picked the best song. is proved by that youtube vid.

i dunno, "Always Shit on the South Side of the Bridge" is pretty good

fact is we wouldn't even be having this debate if all clubs really were the same

i dunno people still debate over tipping when it's obv it's 10%.

i don't think Pete was saying "all clubs are the same" so much as "all hardcore fans believe their club is special". "Big clubs" can make more noise about that specialness partly cos of big historical successes in high profile games but also partly cos they just have more supporters. I don't think clubs have more supporters because they're special but because they've been successful, it's a self-creating specialness that can evaporate over time and i'm sure some of the big clubs from the 50s and earlier believed at the time that they were magical too. Jeez my Dad still totally believes this about Wolves.

'fact is we wouldn't even be having this debate if all clubs really were the same'

You're the only one who won't accept it. But all Liverpool supporters worlds would collapse if they excepted this reality as they have to believe they are blessed.

Clubs are different, but that doesn't make some better or worse or more or less interesting than others. Every club has an incredible story if you can be arsed to look for it, and celebrate it, and discuss it with their supporters, and learn about their traditions and history and culture.

It's profoundly arrogant and unempathic to think otherwise.

Sorry if that came over a bit testy and badly spelled!

yeah but there's a bunch of clubs that have that world club thing going on, you can't watch barca singing their hymn without acknowledging that there's something big going on there, something more than just "oh they think they're great." etc.

x-post it's perfectly possible to accept that all clubs have their traditions and have history and culture and still accept that some clubs are more imbued with romance than others. it's not the best of all possible worlds or something...there may be no absolute truth but what's the point of any tradition, culture, or difference if somebody can't say they feel more moved by one than another.

and in the case of some clubs many people feel this way. doesn't mean the other club is worthless, just the nature of football support means that the more people buy into the mythology of a club the more it's fuelled.

nv prob otm that clubs had their own golden age, but i don't think you can argue that for some the magic is going, for some it might be almost gone, for some it's changing etc...i accept there's a big flux there.

sport isn't entirely subjective either....somebody wins at the end of each season.

x-post no it's grand, i won't have a row about it or whatever, i just disagree.

i just think there's a plausible scenario wherein Liverpool's trajectory followed somebody like Leeds' post 70s. they wd still have a big faithful following but i think the story about what they are now wd be different

i agree...

MK Dons does not have an incredible story and it is not to be celebrated.

ok we can make an exception in their case

although the enigma code was broken in bletchley park

with a machine they stole from elsewhere

:D

if mk dons win five titles in the 2050's what do ye think will happen then?

Tottenham would've gone for Suarez but were told he was not up to it, or: Harry Blames Scouts

"They're all going to have a go next year, make no mistake. I talk to all the managers: Manchester United are going to have a go again, Chelsea will have a go again, Manchester City are going to have a massive go, Liverpool are going to make a big push. I haven't spoken to Arsène Wenger but I imagine Arsenal will have a go as well this year, so it's going to be even tougher to get into that top four next season."

Takes a pro to have an insight into the game like that. I hadn't realised Man U were going to have a go next season.

It's a bit of a blow to hear that news, actually - I was hoping a couple of the elite teams might take the year off. But, according to Harry, that doesn't appear to be the case. Can anyone confirm this?

Arsene not available for comment this morning, but I understand he's launching an inquiry into who leaked his plans to have a go next season.

well i for one was stunned at this turn of events

If Spurs decide to have a go it'll be some season.

Liverpool will be having a go, but failing, Premier League 2011-2012

Go Ahead Eagles will be having a go in the Dutch league I believe, don't tell anyone though.

Not to ruin the lol but if you read the article, Ismael has left out a bit where it says something about the "have a go" referring to spending a big wodge of cash in the summer.

"If we want to get in the top four next year, we'll have to push on," stated Redknapp, who says rival managers have told him they are going to spend heavily in the summer. "They're all going to have a go next year,

sorry all, you've had your fun in fairness.

fun which you hate, let's not forget

nah believe me i was composing a string of similar posts.

i was determined to have a go. it would have been a fantastic few posts. i believe sam would have had a go. darragh you obviously would have had a go. i've not spoken to pete w but i am sure he would have had a go.

i was going to concentrate on having a go and preparing my team to have a go

we have a saying in spain, if there's milk in the bottle, have a go

we lost gareth, e was out for 7 weeks, vdv was so good winning games then's e's jaded they were rippin teams to pieces, without them we're not the same team, i'd rather see us play good football than crap football lumping it up i'd watch us i've only a few years left