i mostly agree with tuomas re: the 09 Star Trek movie - i enjoyed it but it was more of an action movie than a Trek movie, though I give it credit for at least being a really good action movie (most of the TNG movies were just incredibly bad action movies). the villain WAS weak but I chalked that up to origin story syndrome - they're saving the best villains for the second installment. i also thought they underutilized mccoy, who's supposed to be kirk's one true confidant and a vital counter-point to spock's beep boop ice-cold logic.
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 09:07 (thirteen years ago) link
there's no character dynamic in TNG as interesting as kirk-mccoy-spock
how about riker-riker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck-VIA1GUCY
nb all trek fans should immediately watch all clips on that page
― ledge, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 09:09 (thirteen years ago) link
this is my favorite tng edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk7eyqY4bbQ
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 09:29 (thirteen years ago) link
roddenberry seriously hamstrung the show in the early seasons with his lunkheaded decree that there be no interpersonal conflict between the crew
yeah, it's odd to realize that roddenberry in some ways wasn't such a great influence on his own shows -- he had very little role in 'wrath of khan' because he was (kinda rightly) blamed for the boringness of the first movie, which also has pretty much no conflict or character interest going on.
TNG tried to do a spock and mccoy kind of conflict with that awful doctor who replaced crusher for a while, didn't they?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 09:38 (thirteen years ago) link
"that awful doctor" was in two of TOS series, once as love interest, once as the enemy
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Diana_Muldaur
― koogs, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 11:26 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, so bummed that they never went back to it. strange in that it's the only star trek storyline i know of where you get the idea that the federation is a complex, political and morally questionable organization. stealth smack down on roddenberry's midcentury utopian idealism.
I love DS9 in part because they really get into the idea that the Federation isn't uniformly awesome, and even though the main characters remain Federation stans, they do allow characters to express some pretty OTM criticisms of it as a political entity.
Also, yes, the bugs-into-Borg as main bad enemy of TNG is confirmed on Memory Alpha. I love the Borg. They are way creepier to me than parasitic worms are.
― phantoms from a world gone by speak again the immortal tale: (Jenny), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 12:39 (thirteen years ago) link
OST & TNG are about equal in my estimation, most of the movies are fun & watchable, the other series I will probably never see.
― WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 19:28 (thirteen years ago) link
To me ST was always about this sci-fi pacifism
You did notice that Jim Kirk interfered imperially in alien socities ALL THE FRIGGIN' TIME? And sometimes violently. He was like the Teddy Roosevelt of the cosmos.
― resistance does not require a firearm (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 19:52 (thirteen years ago) link
prime directive is some massive bullshit anyway.
― ledge, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link
naw naw, prime directive is cool. it's capital punishment for visiting throbbing headvein planet that is wack.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 22:36 (thirteen years ago) link
did they ever revisit that planet in any of the other ST shows?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 00:02 (thirteen years ago) link
not that i know of. missed opportunities...
― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 00:33 (thirteen years ago) link
No. Wish they did...
x-post
― Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 01:16 (thirteen years ago) link
Back when Star Trek: Voyager was still taking unsolicited scripts I had a great idea as to whether the Prime Directive was applicable in reverse - would Star Fleet (or at least Voyager) allow itself to use tech so far ahead that it could violate the Prime Directive (especially once they used it to return to Federation Space).
Never got further than a plot outline, but it's one thing ST (in whatever show) never satisfactorily addressed. "Where No One Has Gone Before" sorta does it, but it's first season TNG and, well, you know...
― Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 01:25 (thirteen years ago) link
i remembered that episode being kinda cool but just looked it up and hey, what do you know, it's a 'wesley saves the ship' episode.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 02:13 (thirteen years ago) link
I thought the new movie was okay, but not as a Star Trek movie. To me ST was always about this sci-fi pacifism and utopianism; the best TNG and original series TV episodes are the ones where they solve problems with their minds and/or trough negotiation, not with space battles.
perhaps, but most of the trek movies have been action-adventures that were light on the actual sci-fi stuff (except as plot devices).
the only truly science fictional trek movie was the first one, and people seem to hate that one.
also morbz has a point about TOS--for every episode where conflict was solved by understanding a rock monster's feelings or whatever there are another 3 episodes where Kirk & co totally violate the prime directive to kick some klingon ass.
― zingstreet (latebloomer), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 02:23 (thirteen years ago) link
In 2011, de Lancie will appear in Torchwood: Miracle Day, the fourth season of the Doctor Who spin-off series Torchwood (episodes of which were written by Jane Espenson and John Shiban).[3]
― Crazed Mister Handy (kingfish), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 02:31 (thirteen years ago) link
watched the squire of gothos last night.. great ep.
― one dis leads to another (ian), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 02:38 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost -- If he actually appeared as Q...
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 02:39 (thirteen years ago) link
Meanwhile, one of my favorite MST3K moments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26zkCWPLEZg
I think the moment Mike first appeared in mirror form and cackled maniacally the group of people I was watching it with went into 'it can't be' shock. Then he delivered "Your agonizer, please" and we were pretty much gone for the rest of the episode.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 02:43 (thirteen years ago) link
throbbing headvein planet
― stars on 45 my destination (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 03:31 (thirteen years ago) link
Well yeah, that's why I prefer the series (mostly TNG) to the movies. But to me, the new ST movie felt even more action oriented than the previous films. Also, it had some stupid attempts to make the series more "youthful", like the opening scene with the Beastie Boys, the green-skinned alien babe, the "extreme sports" scene with skydiving and swords, etc. I'd prefer ST to be ponderous and a bit suffy, not "cool".
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 06:58 (thirteen years ago) link
"suffy" = "stuffy"
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 06:59 (thirteen years ago) link
The Red Letter Media reviews of the TNG movies are as good as the ones they did for the prequels.
― Crazed Mister Handy (kingfish), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 07:09 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah i was gonna link to those - they're really good, especially if you're a trek fan
― Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 07:16 (thirteen years ago) link
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-trek/
― Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 07:17 (thirteen years ago) link
xxxx-post to Tuomas
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the square, "stuffy" side of Trek! I kinda like how perversely dedicated TNG was to its anti-septic future at times!
― zingstreet (latebloomer), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 07:19 (thirteen years ago) link
...But even TNG had the borg to throw down with.
I was kinda disappointed when they introduced the "borg queen" character in First Contact. Kind of defeats the point of the Borg, no?
― zingstreet (latebloomer), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 07:23 (thirteen years ago) link
i remember ebert gettin a mad borg queen bone @ that movie
― Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 07:29 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, the Borg queen thing was pretty stupid, especially if (as it was implied) she was the queen of all Borg and killing her stopped all of them. I guess Hollywood movies need to have one identifiable big baddie, having a race of anonymous baddies just isn't enough. (See also: the way that one Orc was promoted to the role of an "end-of-the-movie baddie" in the first LotR movie.) Also, her being the queen of all Borg made the victory in First Contact "cleaner": instead of defeating one Borg ship they defeated the whole race.
If you want to have an insect metaphor, it would've made more sense if each Borg ship had its own queen, and killing the queen only incapacitates that one ship.
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 08:23 (thirteen years ago) link
the "extreme sports" scene with skydiving and swords, etc. I'd prefer ST to be ponderous and a bit suffy
thought this scene was pretty fun and dug the in-jokes. nod to sulu's inner swashbcukler in "the naked time" and red shirt guy bites the dust immediately!
― original bgm, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 11:39 (thirteen years ago) link
whoops. just meant to quote the skydiving bit.
― original bgm, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 11:41 (thirteen years ago) link
Good call Tuomas. I never liked the fact that Picard had been a bit borgy at one point, made them seem less scary and sinister in the sense that you could escape them. Queen Borg comes across as suppressed and horny. A very weird combination.
― I am leader of the sheeple (captain rosie), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 11:57 (thirteen years ago) link
Alan N. otm re: skydiving. Tuomas OTM re: the Beastie Boys tho
― american thinker (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 15:37 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, beastie boys scene is kind of indefensible.
― original bgm, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 16:27 (thirteen years ago) link
I am no defender but watching that scene in the cinema was pretty awesome.
― I am leader of the sheeple (captain rosie), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 16:29 (thirteen years ago) link
I am rereading the Ebert review on first contact & he keeps calling them "Borgs." I thought the plural of Borg was Borg? What does the Federation style manual say on this?
― Abbbottt, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 17:12 (thirteen years ago) link
not a star trek expert at all but clearly it should be "borg", as in the monolithic freakiness of "THE BORG"
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 17:29 (thirteen years ago) link
hello!
― Abbbottt, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 17:30 (thirteen years ago) link
ebert being inattentive to that pleasure in a positive review is frankly a black mark, but he earns back my goodwill in the nemesis review where he says "life is too short to sit through 10 movies in which the power is shifted around on these shields".
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 17:33 (thirteen years ago) link
(that's the same review where he calls star trek "kind of terrific, once" which i think is a really touching, measured way to praise it while still declaring yourself Done with it)
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 17:42 (thirteen years ago) link
anyway i thought the abrams star trek was fun--driving home from the theatre, i pretended my dashboard gauges measured cooler things--and the only way in which it was an ideological break from the last few TNG movies was that it wasn't directed and acted like a playstation cutscene, but it and the original series have different pretensions. the complaint about it being "youthful" sounds odd but is actually totally otm because half the weird lovable brink-of-camp atmosphere of the old movies comes from all the performers being puffy.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 17:56 (thirteen years ago) link
I feel more charitable towards abrams trek despite its utter non-trekiness mainly due to the utternon-trekiness of the spinoffs from DS9 onward, but got to disagree with the Borg queen-hate.
Yes, there's a lot of narrative putty to make her stick but if you've ever been in a student group with no discernible leader, you'd have to agree that the borg as dictatorship is far more believable than a bunch of dudes arguing over the fonts on the dorm party flyers.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 19:49 (thirteen years ago) link
we beg to differ
― Banaka™ (banaka), Thursday, 12 May 2011 00:13 (thirteen years ago) link
BOOM
― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Thursday, 12 May 2011 00:13 (thirteen years ago) link
3 of 12 thinks we should make potstickers for the bake sale4 of 8 hearts potstickers!3 of 5 hates potstickers!5 of 8 is allergic to gluten3 of 12 wonders if potstickers are gluten-free3 of 5 ate all the potstickers
That's what a queen-less borg would be like.
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 12 May 2011 00:35 (thirteen years ago) link
i ate all the potstickers
― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Thursday, 12 May 2011 00:40 (thirteen years ago) link
They eat all our potstickers... and we fall back. The line must be drawn HERE!
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 12 May 2011 00:56 (thirteen years ago) link
don't think the idea with the borg was that they voted
i was okay with the queen as like an avatar or whatever of the collective consciousness, or maybe i wasn't, i haven't seen it in forever.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 12 May 2011 00:58 (thirteen years ago) link
although i guess if you were a race with a single collective consciousness like a million-headed hydra that could never be defeated why would you combine it all into one chick someone could shoot, so yeah
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 12 May 2011 00:59 (thirteen years ago) link