Bin Laden Dead?

these same people don't want due process or trials for the guys in guantanamo; the level of self righteous bullshit being served up here is silly even by the standards of the day

Which same ppl? I want trials and justice for the prisoners of guantanamo. What does one thing have to do with another?

Basically neither the US or Pakistan has its hard-of-thinking fundies under control and it actually shames me, at least on the American side, that adult babies baying incoherently for justice are the world's take-away of who we are. I would also like jury trials for Guantanamo people, and a pony, please.

Tony Blair on R4 making me want to vom but at least I can't see the Botox this way.

that adult babies baying incoherently for justice are the world's take-away of who we are.

I don't get this at all. Who is baying?

The people who are all 'I wanna see his head on a stick' etc...

guantanamo xp

Are ppl saying that here?

I don't think anyone is talking about people on this thread.

the extraterritorial location

well yeah - as goole suggests upthread it would be a bit rich getting all habeas corpus after flouting every rule in the book to raid the dude

but in a utilitarian sense the most just is not really the precedent i'd like to see the united states set. that's the justification every killer gives.

sure you don't want the trial to serve as a pulpit to preach from but, well, yes - he would "have his say" if given half a chance. but if we're afraid of that then jeez.

ha yeah, shudder to think a defendant could confront his accusers

surely the fear was more about increasing OBL's reach/exposure and burnishing his image as an unjustly put-upon martyr. the more of a pulpit he had, the more effective he'd be in stirring up antipathy for the US. I'm not a fan of what happened, but I'm pretty clear on the reasons it happened how it did.

right

I'm not a fan of what happened, but I'm pretty clear on the reasons it happened how it did.

this could be the subtitle of the last 30 years of politics at least

Basically neither the US or Pakistan has its hard-of-thinking fundies under control

this is probably the most equivalent thing ever

Why did they have to to use the codename "Geronimo." Native Americans are not happy about this

let 'em jump off a cliff

imo bin laden was not an ordinary criminal, though note that that's a highly specific, very untranscendental concept, the same way that sovereign state is. are the likes of greenwald really saying that obama should have asked pakistan to extradite osama bin laden? that is a lot like saying he should get to live out his days without ever meeting justice. i don't think pakistan is a particularly sovereign state, nor afghanistan ten years ago, nor south yemen now (or for a long time really), and the two things come together because al-queda was acting with the approval of powerful elements within these not-quite-sovereign-states, and osama was recently under the protection of same. well, of course we don't know that and im sure a trial would have illuminated every fold and crease of the thing.

The problem with trying defendants after the War on Terrah is over is that it will never be over.

"I think resistance does not require a firearm." Man, that Jay Carney dude is golden, Cousin Ari would be proud.

I was going to bring up the Eichmann trial -- of course that took place in pre-all-voracious-baboon-media times.

The problem with trying defendants after the War on Terrah is over is that it will never be over.

yes.

it's probable that there weren't a whole lot of options when the shit went down. and the offical explanaish that Team America would have liked to take him alive is better than nothing. it at least gestures towards some kind of enlightenment.

Why did they have to to use the codename "Geronimo." Native Americans are not happy about this

On Twitter:

tinyrevolution Jonathan Schwarz

Code name for bin Laden? "Geronimo." Oh American Indians, we've killed people all over world, but we will never forget you were our first.

okay THAT is how you do bitter comedy

are there any experts on the icc or us law who could say whether either allow trials of defendants who have been kidnapped from other countries?

I don't know this Schwarz guy, but he looks ace:

Lots of Americans were mad it took ten years for the government to kill bin Laden, but I think it was worth being extra careful to make sure no one else got hurt.

ha yeah, shudder to think a defendant could confront his accusers

Pretty sure Bin Laden had been confronting his accusers for years. Explicitly. On tape. Broadcast around the world. You think he had some fresh bromides in store for his show trial? I doubt OBL would have even defended his actions. But, oh, now we'll never know!

It is understandably of our most popular assassinations ever, I'm guessing it'll be #1 when VH1 does a countdown show.

only if you join Starship and sing "We Built This City."

But what Greenwald waves away with a few words ("It's true that those trials took place after the war was over...") completely invalidates his argument. Yes, that's the major difference between the examples.

― Mordy, Wednesday, May 4, 2011 12:51 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

it's this kind of thing that makes greenwald's high standing hysterical to me.

but you know, mussolini never had his day in court and the war kinda was over (in italy) at that point.

shame on you, italy. shame on you.

nrq shd def move to the US and be a smug pundit

Yes, that's the major difference between the examples.

Terrorism is not warfare, because in warfare we wave away the butchery of civilians as fair game

Saw this in ... Poitico?

Rep. Ted Poe (R-Texas) has drafted legislation that would require Pakistan to prove it didn’t know bin Laden was hiding in Abbottabad to get U.S. funds.

Make a run for it, Pakistan! It's a trap!

how exactly is that one gonna work

like, if the country of Pakistan ever comes to the US, it will be required to divulge this info before it clears customs...?

lol maybe I should the entirety of things before I comment on them

Proving a negative, eh. Clever.

Not sure I would allow Mr Poe to drive a car or own a gun w/that level of intelligence.

Is that like a MadLibs post, Dan? "Maybe I should ________ the entriety..."

haha what the hell

I can blame missing letters on my crappy keyboard but entire missing WORDS = me needing sleep

I should READ the entirety blah blah

xp If MadLibs still works the way it did when I was a kid, the answer is either "boogers" or "butt," neither of which makes any sense.

Rep. Ted Poe (R-Texas) has drafted legislation that would require Pakistan to prove it didn’t know bin Laden was hiding in Abbottabad to get U.S. funds.

has the senate always been like this? it seems like there's so much of this dumbass, infeasible, hot-topic legislation proposed recently.

There have always been some idiots in the house, and a handful in the senate for good measure.

Senate = platform for LCD posturing, legislation very infrequently

(that is, legislation that is the object of any thought)

ted poe is not in the senate

Mr. Poe would evidently prefer to (like many in his party) score cheap political points than to positively affect the extremely complicated and touchy foregin policy wrt Pakistan. He is thus a knave and a fool. Well done.

are there any experts on the icc or us law who could say whether either allow trials of defendants who have been kidnapped from other countries?

― lloyd banks knew my father (history mayne), Wednesday, May 4, 2011 2:01 PM (41 minutes ago)

US does iirc - I'm not in aposition to research right now, but try googling 'Alvarez-Machain', this I think is the case that puts it beyond doubt.

ICC doesn't do anything as far as I can tell. Logically, though, the kidnapping thing makes less sense there as it's based essentially on universal jurisdiction.

but he doesn't know that a ref has to be 100 percent certain to give a peno, ladies and gentlemen, this is yr supposed 'expert'

Pretty sure masterminding a plan to fly planes into skyscrapers is a straight red, darraghmac.

ted poe is not in the senate

I am confident this will be corrected by the good people of Texas.
I entirely support saying get-fucked to Pakistan if it had the remotest possibility of happening.

Obama's "This proves we can do anything we set are minds to" is maybe his biggest rhetorical brainfart ever, unless Navy SEALs are his new economic team.

I entirely support saying get-fucked to Pakistan if it had the remotest possibility of happening.

For the most part, trying to micromanage foreign policy from the House is a mug's game.

I assume he is just waiting for ppl to flood the White House w/ calls in support of his bold initiative

I entirely support saying get-fucked to Pakistan if it had the remotest possibility of happening.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly? The few Pakistanis I know are often in despair at their own country (and constantly worried about their relatives there) but hope for more engagement with the rest of the world not less.