2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

ZINGS U CAN XEROX LOLOLZ

The fact that Hillary Clinton has any credibility on healthcare is beyond me.

As far as that video goes - I think her campaign has realized that a) she's just not as inspiring or compelling as Obama and b) the "experience will bring change!" argument isn't working, so their last resort is to basically call him a phony for engaging in campaign tactics that are much less slimy than many of the things that have come out of the Clinton campaign. There was a Slate video recently comparing Clinton to Tracy Flick, and it was hilariously spot-on. I don't think this new line of attack will work. It reinforces the stereotype that she's angry, petty, and grating to listen to, and people who have lost manufacturing jobs in Ohio probably don't care about Obama's campaign tactics. They're more concerned with NAFTA, healthcare, and so on - so the Obama campaign mailing was pretty smart politics.

I only see this argument appealing to people who are already in Clinton's camp and are bitter about Obama's popularity. One person I know who is a huge Clinton fan was recently remarking very spitefully, "Just look how full of himself he is! It's all going to his head, you can just tell!" No wonder her support is so much weaker than his.

xingz u can xerox

that video is kinda whoa! clinton maybe responding to the disappointment over her lack of aggressiveness in the last debate?

meanwhile according to the times shes all mellow and philosophical http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/us/politics/24mood.html

planned outrage

http://poplicks.com/images/iseman-and-maverick.jpg

ha!

"As part of that focus, Mrs. Clinton has avoided giving pep talks to her aides, because a pep talk might suggest that the campaign is heading in an irretrievable direction."

What's that line about boats against the current, borne back ceaselssly into the past?

She might as well come off as a desperate, angry schoolteacher, the media treats her like that anyway, so fuck it. I thought the mailer she has there was pretty despicable, which is why I mentioned above re: not thinking Obama was much interested in doing anything about health care. It's pretty much a dead on copy of the Harry and Louise ads in the early 90's.

no it isn't

I just think Obama's taking a more realistic stance on what can be accomplished re: healthcare. That said, the mailers were gross.

yes, i agree with that

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/17/673452.aspx

let's keep the tall horses of morality stabled, daria

I would reserve "gross" for mailers claiming that oh.... McCain has a black baby.

I should really go watch Election again, though. I'd probably see it completely differently now. Tracy Flick is kind of awesome

hahaha

Harry and Louise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt31nhleeCg

Obama flyer (warning, PDF):
http://www.politico.com/pdf/PPM44_080130_nd_obama_hrc_healthcare_plan_forces_health_insurance2.pdf

let's keep the tall horses of morality stabled, daria

How about no?

Oh yeah, no argument there. South Carolina is second to none in slimy mail campaigns.

I thought that report Jason Jones did on The Daily Show about the company contracted out for most of these underhanded mailing campaigns was pretty hilarious, but also made my skin crawl.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/2008-02-19_hillary_wi_mailer_present_1.jpg

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8U00P7O0&show_article=1

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/harry_louise_again.html

^^^ read the date

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/2008-01-16_hillary_anti-obama_soc_security_cap_1.jpg

xpost: How about yes? Really, as a Clinton supporter you have no room to call out Obama's "gross" tactics when theirs have been much worse, for a long period of time..

Well, I'll shut up then. Bye yall

Finally.

damn dude

props to remy bean for bringin actualfax, though.

yah maybe I was mean. o well, she's annoying

i like daria, and i think she has been a real sport on these threads. but i cannot stand to hear contrived moral outrage over 'dirty politics' from a candidate that has been playing a scuzzy game since the beginning.

I like daria too. Sometimes I get tired of all the OMGOBAMA in this thread, even if I'm responsible for some of it. Also, it's probably best not to live in a bubble.

it's not her clinton support that bothers me (I agree this thread could use more clintonis44-type people, as well as some MAC IS BAC people, just for balance), it's more her attitude about the whole thing. Plus, it seems like she's just supporting clinton to be different - what she said about Obama's speeches in the last thread was telling....

actually I guess she's not that bad whatever, i'm tired. DARIA COME BACK, etc.

ok nobody tell dom but

Samuel L. Jackson to Stump for Obama in Longview, TX

Since I didn't know about Harry and Louise I totally read that as Thelma and Louise for a while :-/

anywayz here's obama's response to hilary's diatribe:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/02/23/obama.speech.cnn

Can't see that video - what does he say, "that time of the month I guess" ? (*hides*) :-/

he seems to just dismiss it as 'of course she's trying to get attention, she's behind. it's smart, tactically.'

v v frontrunner brushoff, it seems like.

It's pretty much a dead on copy of the Harry and Louise ads in the early 90's.

-- daria-g, Sunday, February 24, 2008 2:17 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

Probably not true, but that is the first thing I thought of when I saw it.

I just don't get the strategy behind a move like this. It has been proven time and time again (most recently, 3 DAYS AGO) that Hilary does best when she is likeable, "human", etc. Why would she play into people's perceptions of her being a shrewd, calculating, duplicitous harpy?

I like daria too. Sometimes I get tired of all the OMGOBAMA in this thread, even if I'm responsible for some of it. Also, it's probably best not to live in a bubble.

^^^^ This, and Remy's similar comment, too.

Probably because she needs to change the dynamic, somehow. Being nice is a tactic she's tried before, and there's no new wrinkle to it for her. But a politician has endless permutations on how to be nasty.

(xp to BW)

I like daria too. Sometimes I get tired of all the OMGOBAMA in this thread, even if I'm responsible for some of it. Also, it's probably best not to live in a bubble.

yezir

Def wish we had a few more HRC people in thread.

McCain/Huck types might want their own thread?

I don't think being all "LOL SPEECHES" is going to change the dynamic in her favor though...

I think H. is also canny enough to suspect that enough of O.'s support is charisma-based, and if she can disrupt the halo for a few minutes, she might be able to drag a few Texans to her side.

I want the GOP-supporters here, too. Otherwise it can become too much of a (snippy) echo-chamber.

Hillary is definitely playing an older kind of personality politics than Obama. I suspect LOL SPEECHES will play well on cable television, but in the immediate deconstruction that comes with internet politics, it is stale before it has had a chance to settle.

x-post -- ARE there any here? Folks like Don and Keyth and the like have always seemed more flat-out libertarian and very disenchanted with the GOP anyway.

if she can disrupt the halo

I think there's something to this, too. Obama's seen as "above politics," which is a large part of his appeal. If she can make him seem just like every other politician, it might hurt him badly.

I doubt, at this juncture, she has enough time to pull it off, tho.