my wife loved it, but she also liked "Studio 60" and therefore is not to be trusted
― Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:15 (thirteen years ago) link
"coked up policy wonk banter > adorable people with adorable names quipping adorably at each other"
have you no heart
― da croupier, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:15 (thirteen years ago) link
sorkin is basically david e kelley with twice the IQ while still reconizably David E kelley
― da croupier, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:16 (thirteen years ago) link
whedon does have a tendency to drop into adorable to the adorable degree and i really can't stand Kaylee in Firefly for that reason. but buffy/willow/reynolds/zoe/jayne unfuckable characters afaic
― Mordy, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:17 (thirteen years ago) link
unfuckable with i should say. some of them are quite fuckable
who's whedon the smarter version of? whoever created gilmore girls?
― hong does your geirden gro (some dude), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:18 (thirteen years ago) link
KAYLEE IS AWESOME FUCK YOU ahem
― Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:19 (thirteen years ago) link
Whedon is in a class of his own and if you can't see beyond, nay, embrace the adorability well than so be it grumpy bear
― da croupier, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:19 (thirteen years ago) link
whedon is the talented/smarter version of comicbookresource forum posters
― Mordy, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:19 (thirteen years ago) link
Astonishing X-Men over Buffy, because JW took his eye off the ball and let other people shit up the latter too much in the last season
Kinda funny that the Buffy Season 8 comic hasn't been mentioned (and doesn't deserve to be tbh)
― the wages of sin is about tree fiddy (WmC), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:20 (thirteen years ago) link
Whedon is the smart Kevin Williamson
― Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:20 (thirteen years ago) link
I'll take that
― da croupier, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:21 (thirteen years ago) link
i don't really get the sorkin whedon comparison anyway since it seems to me that whedon's strengths are in character writing and sorkin's are in dialogue writing. that might seem like a silly dichotomy bc so much character is revealed thru dialogue but i'm always dazzled by what sorkin's characters say but never really feel like i know these ppl. i fall in love with whedon's characters but they never seem to say anything particularly interesting.
― Mordy, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:22 (thirteen years ago) link
well the whole cloth of my dichotomy was exactly what i said, "chatty cutesy TV auteurs of our time." you're right that their respective approaches to chattiness have different aims and results, though.
― hong does your geirden gro (some dude), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:28 (thirteen years ago) link
Straczynski is an interesting comparison too bc he's another great writer but kinda a plot-writing savant imo, not great characters OR dialogue. Still compelling tho.
― Mordy, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:29 (thirteen years ago) link
i don't know if i've ever fallen in love w/ a Sorkin character but i know i couldn't fall in love w/ a Whedon one because they seem more painstakingly designed for nerd bonerz than Kelly LeBrock in Weird Science.
― hong does your geirden gro (some dude), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:30 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean you can't fault the guy's eye for casting though -- a WS poll of the Firefly actresses would be impossible
― hong does your geirden gro (some dude), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:31 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^^ OTM forever
― Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:31 (thirteen years ago) link
how much buffy have you seen, sd
― da croupier, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:32 (thirteen years ago) link
I guess Sorkin is unlikely to ever take a shot at writing comics like Whedon and JMS.
― the wages of sin is about tree fiddy (WmC), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:32 (thirteen years ago) link
Sorkin is too busy doing coke to write a comic book
― Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:33 (thirteen years ago) link
he'd rather do an earnest show about someone trying to make a Doonesbury-esque comic strip in the face of corporate and political pressure
― da croupier, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:34 (thirteen years ago) link
can't not vote buffy. firefly deserved a lot better though. did fewer people really watch that than dollhouse?
― sonderangerbot, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:35 (thirteen years ago) link
"Whatever happened to Chuck Schultz? Walt Kelly? The greats!""You can't merchandise satire, Bob."
― da croupier, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:35 (thirteen years ago) link
― hong does your geirden gro (some dude), den 28 april 2011 21:31 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
not really. CH never looked smashier imo
― sonderangerbot, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Another write-in vote for Astonishing X-Men - his run was one of the best examples of classic superhero comics made after the 80s, when grim and gritty stories replaced Claremontian melodrama and high adventure.
― Tuomas, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Gina Torres's initials are not "CH"
― Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:40 (thirteen years ago) link
i really wish i "got" this guy cause hes a big deal to so many people whose tastes i respect and with whom i usually agree.... but i just dont "get it."
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:43 (thirteen years ago) link
"nerd boners" is really the most succinct explanation
― Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:44 (thirteen years ago) link
i admittedly have not seen much Buffy and have kind of lived in fear of coming to grudgingly enjoy it. i kinda liked that movie version everyone disowns, though.
― hong does your geirden gro (some dude), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:45 (thirteen years ago) link
The movie is hilarious, IMO.
― Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:45 (thirteen years ago) link
I always wanted Luke Perry to do a Pike cameo on the show
― da croupier, Thursday, 28 April 2011 19:46 (thirteen years ago) link
or at least bring the paul reubens vampire on
* Atlantis: The Lost Empire (2001) – treatment* Captain America: The First Avenger (2011) – * The Avengers (2012) – * The Cabin in the Woods (TBA) – * Goners (TBA) – * Buffy the Animated Series (2004) (unaired)
xp: oh I should have included that
theorem: dan should slow down when creating polls, sometimes
― wicked Nome King, brah (sic), Friday, 29 April 2011 06:53 (thirteen years ago) link
I know he only did one season, but Roseanne has brought me more joy than everything else on this list combined (excepting Toy Story).
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 29 April 2011 06:56 (thirteen years ago) link
It's an opinion that has won me the contempt of many but i think i marginally preferred Angel to Buffy. Angel started slowly and was fairly patchy at times but felt like it had more depth at its best.
― I LOVE BELARUS (ShariVari), Friday, 29 April 2011 06:59 (thirteen years ago) link
kinda tempted to vote for 'buffy the animated series' just because in theory at least it's awesome
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 29 April 2011 09:20 (thirteen years ago) link
xxxxxpost - most of his movie writing jobs have been to take scripts and make them work smoother and add jokes. I believe he was the last hackscriptwriter for Toy Story and X-Men and Speed to go to. As opposed to, you know, writing them.
I don't think there is contempt for people who like Angel better than Buffy. It's odd, Buffy at its peak is way better than anything television has ever done imo but at the end it got so shoddy that the Angel episode shown after it (the way it was shown here anyway) was so much better that I had to wait for the vhs (lol) to remember that nothing could touch certain parts of Buffy. Really though they were totally different shows, something that doesn't get acknowledged often and Buffy could have never done something like the amazing 'Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been'.
― popular gay automobile (a hoy hoy), Friday, 29 April 2011 09:57 (thirteen years ago) link
― da croupier, Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― da croupier, Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
Yes and yes.
Voting "Angel" because its wrapup was ultimately so much more rewarding than Buffy's was, from SPOILERS Wesley's death to Lorne killing Lindsey then taking a powder to Angel's "I'll take the dragon." Fucking awesome.
― SteakNique (®2011 Ulillillia) (Phil D.), Friday, 29 April 2011 13:30 (thirteen years ago) link
Whedon's one of those guys with such bad luck I sometimes think it really is all luck. Like, smart guy, third generation TV writer (not many of them!), but remarkably hit or miss for a guy with a vision. "Buffy" may be the only time his talents were totally in sync with the Zeitgeist. Though I know he remains grouchy about his treatment re: "Toy Story," which apparently has its fingerprints all over it.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 29 April 2011 13:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Some Toy Story backstory here:
http://classic-web.archive.org/web/20060102103544/http://www.infocusmag.com/05augustseptember/whedonuncut.htm
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 29 April 2011 13:58 (thirteen years ago) link
Parenthood (1990) – writer, co-producer
that's such a great movie! i fucking love it! didn't even know he was connected to this. YAY
― Nathalie (stevienixed), Friday, 29 April 2011 20:59 (thirteen years ago) link
buffy buffy buffy (tv show of course)
― horseshoe, Friday, 29 April 2011 21:03 (thirteen years ago) link
he wrote some really good episodes of roseanne iirc
― horseshoe, Friday, 29 April 2011 21:04 (thirteen years ago) link
btw, i picked buffy tv; no brainer
― Nathalie (stevienixed), Friday, 29 April 2011 21:06 (thirteen years ago) link
― horseshoe, Friday, April 29, 2011 5:04 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
ok you tipped my scales to roseanne
― hong does your geirden gro (some dude), Friday, 29 April 2011 21:08 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, the 89/90 season was when she was working at the salon and Jackie was a cop iirc
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 29 April 2011 21:09 (thirteen years ago) link
fyi his Astonishing X-Men run is somewhat overrated
like, it was good, but it wasn't OMG AMAZEBALLS
― Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Friday, 29 April 2011 21:09 (thirteen years ago) link
i wanted dollhouse to be so much better than it was, still disappointed
― i can tina turner (elmo argonaut), Thursday, April 28, 2011 12:06 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
otm, but a friend of mine keeps trying to convince me to give the second season a chance. she claims it got better.
― horseshoe, Friday, 29 April 2011 21:10 (thirteen years ago) link
Parenthood. Except for Toy Story I've been underwhelmed by everything post-1990 (including Astonishing X-Men). I just don't like his schtick, but for some reason I keep giving it a chance.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 29 April 2011 21:11 (thirteen years ago) link
that's how jim shooter created star brand iirc
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 21 August 2017 21:00 (seven years ago) link
well-played
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 21 August 2017 21:07 (seven years ago) link
As much as I'd love to indict Whedon for horrible comics, I don't think comic series based on television properties have any editorial oversight whatsoever. Sometimes it seems the token issue written by someone connected to the original property isn't even proofed by the writer.
― mh, Monday, 21 August 2017 21:07 (seven years ago) link
you could tell me that an X-Files comic has established Mulder is a werewolf and I'd believe it
― mh, Monday, 21 August 2017 21:08 (seven years ago) link
http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/fox-mulder-goes-werewolf-for-x-files-2.html
so close
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 21 August 2017 21:11 (seven years ago) link
― mh, Monday, August 21, 2017 10:07 PM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
He actually wrote a lot of those "Season 8" comics himself IIRC.
― Pheeel, Monday, 21 August 2017 21:30 (seven years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer_Season_Eight#Writers_and_story_arcs
Joss Whedon serves as "executive producer" for the series across every issue, giving his other writers notes on characterization, continuity and his overall concept in mind as he would when overseeing Buffy as a television series. Whedon wrote the first story arc ("The Long Way Home", #1–4), the fourth ("Time of Your Life", #16–19), the final story arc ("Last Gleaming", #36–40), and several intermediary one-shot stories (#5, #10, #11, "Willow", and #31). Comic and television writer Brian K. Vaughan became the first guest writer on the series, writing the second story arc "No Future for You" (#6–9). While Vaughan was not a "Buffyverse" staff member, he was a fan of both series (particularly the character of Faith) and Joss Whedon himself was a fan of Vaughan's Marvel Comics series Runaways, on which he served as writer during the period Vaughan wrote "No Future for You." Former Buffy and Angel writer Drew Goddard wrote the series' third arc, "Wolves at the Gate" (#12–15). Goddard first became a Buffy writer in its final season, starting with the episode "Selfless" and finishing with the Angel episode "The Girl in Question", which itself obliquely hints at the life of Buffy post-season seven. Goddard went on to become a writer for the movie Cloverfield and acclaimed American dramas Lost and Alias (all working alongside producer J. J. Abrams) while also penning the story "Antique" for canonical Buffy comic book Tales of the Vampires, which he references in "Wolves at the Gate".Film, comics and television writer-producer Jeph Loeb wrote issue #20 of the series ("After These Messages... We'll Be Right Back!". Loeb had previously been involved with Whedon in the conception of Buffy the Animated Series, which never came to be. Following Loeb are Buffyverse alumni Jane Espenson, Doug Petrie,[28] Drew Z. Greenberg, and Steven S. DeKnight as well as comic book writer Jim Krueger, who each wrote an issue between issues #21 and #25 ("Predators and Prey"), which is a single arc told from a number of different perspectives. These one-shots follow the perspectives of Harmony (#21, Espenson), Satsu/Kennedy (#22, DeKnight), Buffy/Andrew (#23, Greenberg), Giles/Faith (#24, Krueger) and a Xander/Dawn issue which will also reveal more about Twilight (#25, Petrie).[29] Jane Espenson returned for a five-issue arc involving the character of Oz for issues #26–30, titled "Retreat"[30] and also wrote a one-shot about Riley. Joss Whedon returned to write two one-shots, "Willow: Goddesses and Monsters" and issue #31, "Turbulence". Brad Meltzer, author of several New York Times best-selling books and later both Identity Crisis and Justice League for DC Comics wrote the penultimate story arc of Season Eight, "Twilight", which is issues #32–35. Whedon himself resumes authorship for the final five issues (#36–40, "Last Gleaming") of the series, bringing Season Eight to an end.[31]Dark Horse Presents has also offered several short, canonical side stories to the mix. "Harmony Bites" by Espenson and Moline is a fictional episode of Harmony Kendall's television series, tying into issue #21. "Vampy Cat Play Friend" is a fictional television commercial tying in with issue #22, written by Steven S. DeKnight and illustrated by Camilla d'Errico. Joss Whedon teamed up with Jo Chen to produce "Always Darkest", a depiction of Buffy's terrible nightmares, and Espenson teamed up with Moline again to produce "Harmony Comes to the Nation", a fictional interview for The Colbert Report where Harmony lays out her ambitions, both tying in with Jane Espenson's "Retreat" arc. Jackie Kessler wrote "Tales of the Vampires: Carpe Noctem", a two-part ministory with the previously unseen characters Ash and Cyn, about the consequences of Harmony Kendall's television series from a vampire's point of view.
Film, comics and television writer-producer Jeph Loeb wrote issue #20 of the series ("After These Messages... We'll Be Right Back!". Loeb had previously been involved with Whedon in the conception of Buffy the Animated Series, which never came to be. Following Loeb are Buffyverse alumni Jane Espenson, Doug Petrie,[28] Drew Z. Greenberg, and Steven S. DeKnight as well as comic book writer Jim Krueger, who each wrote an issue between issues #21 and #25 ("Predators and Prey"), which is a single arc told from a number of different perspectives. These one-shots follow the perspectives of Harmony (#21, Espenson), Satsu/Kennedy (#22, DeKnight), Buffy/Andrew (#23, Greenberg), Giles/Faith (#24, Krueger) and a Xander/Dawn issue which will also reveal more about Twilight (#25, Petrie).[29] Jane Espenson returned for a five-issue arc involving the character of Oz for issues #26–30, titled "Retreat"[30] and also wrote a one-shot about Riley. Joss Whedon returned to write two one-shots, "Willow: Goddesses and Monsters" and issue #31, "Turbulence". Brad Meltzer, author of several New York Times best-selling books and later both Identity Crisis and Justice League for DC Comics wrote the penultimate story arc of Season Eight, "Twilight", which is issues #32–35. Whedon himself resumes authorship for the final five issues (#36–40, "Last Gleaming") of the series, bringing Season Eight to an end.[31]
Dark Horse Presents has also offered several short, canonical side stories to the mix. "Harmony Bites" by Espenson and Moline is a fictional episode of Harmony Kendall's television series, tying into issue #21. "Vampy Cat Play Friend" is a fictional television commercial tying in with issue #22, written by Steven S. DeKnight and illustrated by Camilla d'Errico. Joss Whedon teamed up with Jo Chen to produce "Always Darkest", a depiction of Buffy's terrible nightmares, and Espenson teamed up with Moline again to produce "Harmony Comes to the Nation", a fictional interview for The Colbert Report where Harmony lays out her ambitions, both tying in with Jane Espenson's "Retreat" arc. Jackie Kessler wrote "Tales of the Vampires: Carpe Noctem", a two-part ministory with the previously unseen characters Ash and Cyn, about the consequences of Harmony Kendall's television series from a vampire's point of view.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 21 August 2017 21:34 (seven years ago) link
Also since seeing the panel of Angel and Buffy boffing across the sky, I have not been able to stop giggling.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 21 August 2017 21:38 (seven years ago) link
I stand corrected, these nerdos do care about these horrible comics
― mh, Monday, 21 August 2017 21:45 (seven years ago) link
the internet sucks so bad
― k3vin k., Monday, 21 August 2017 21:48 (seven years ago) link
Very true
Which matters more out of wheedons work or his affairs or his feminist cred I can't summon up enough enthusiasm about any of it to discern
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 00:40 (seven years ago) link
cool thanx for letting us know mate
― Pheeel, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 08:57 (seven years ago) link
Ugh, I hate stuff like this so much.
http://www.avclub.com/article/joss-whedon-was-never-feminist-259694
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 11:07 (seven years ago) link
Why? I read it, I don't get it.
― As an ilxor, I am uncompromising (El Tomboto), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 11:10 (seven years ago) link
Biographical readings of art are boring and trite, is my principal objection.
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 11:14 (seven years ago) link
that seems a bit of a stretch for what the piece actually says tho
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 11:19 (seven years ago) link
i mean it starts with a straight-up critique of some aspects of buffy which have nothing to do, really, with whedon's personal feminism
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 11:20 (seven years ago) link
The piece repeatedly draws connections between plot/writing elements, his public words and the alleged stuff in his private life.
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 11:22 (seven years ago) link
That point of the piece is to situate the writer on the right side of the argument, and the rest is unimportant.
Re: whether he's a feminist or not - who cares? Seems more important whether (as the ex-wife suggests) he abused his position as producer - not whether, say, he was mean to kill off Cordelia.
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 12:13 (seven years ago) link
Interesting that Kai Cole says she was diagnosed with complex PTSD. I have too many thoughts on this! C-PTSD isn't a DSM-5 disorder but does go a long way to describe (and help treat) trauma felt by systemic oppression, abusive relationships, or unstable family lives
― fgti, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 13:17 (seven years ago) link
personally I would like to hear more of the thoughts!
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 13:22 (seven years ago) link
guilty lol
pic.twitter.com/8LIqaXgtye— The MegaBee (@megabee) August 24, 2017
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 25 August 2017 11:53 (seven years ago) link