The Locking of the Avril Thread

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (792 of them)

yes, you get paid by them for helping disseminate their racist, sexist crap. Congratulations on helping privileged white kids feel better about hurting others' feelings by using the word "nigger" and feeling transgressive about it.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought he was arguing that you were only a Moderator because Calum is a Troll (because you are a Moderator because...)

xpost Dan I seriously considered making that comment, but I decided that there's no place for humor in such a serious discussion.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.haywired.com/lovesusan3/tvwork/amc4.jpg

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 18 June 2004 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Help, a Rockist!

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

it's not rockist surgery.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

When I didn't have power for a week, I read most of the Vice Guide To Sex, Drugs & Rock'n'Roll. I was surprised to find a few really great things - the ex-junkie blaming himself for the death of people he introduced to heroin, for instance - mixed in among the usual crap.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

hope you didn't pay for it.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah they do have the occasional winner amidst all the just-discovered-Henry-Miller stuff

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah but I still hope milo didn't pay for it. All that shit was free in the magazine.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never seen a racial epithet used offensively in Vice, J0hn, but then I've never found Calum's views on women particularly shocking either, so maybe I'm just odd.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

$5 at Virgin Megastore. (It was down to a choice between Matos' Prince book, the 33 1/3 VU book or this one, and it was larger)

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think Vice is available anywhere in Dallas.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

online.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

You got me there. But at the time I had no electricity.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

ha! but you got me there. Also, A.O. Scott is white.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.eblox.com/lechner/hygene.jpg

― Jon Williams!!!!! (ROFFLE!@!@!@) (ex machina), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

A usage from the current issue which I consider no more offensive than your usage upthread, f'rinstance, J0hn:

'I once heard a horrible, horrible man (my biological dad) say, "An Irishman is just a nigger turned inside out." Though that quote is wrong for a plethora of reasons, it can be effectively used to describe punks, who are essentially frat boys turned inside out.'

http://www.viceland.com/issues/v11n5/htdocs/frats.php

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

re: the question way up there about the tweeness of Pieces of April - no soundtrack on Earth could have made that film less twee. Pseudo-punky teen star! Interracial couple that's accepted by everyone after hints at things being otherwise! Boyfriend looking like he's doing something shady, really buying a used suit! Reuniting with a disliked mother who's dying of cancer! Thanksgiving dinner with someone from every conceivable ethnic group in New York City!

(still an enjoyable movie)

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 18 June 2004 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, that quote is a horseshit piece of writing.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not too late.

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 18 June 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

No Dan it's transgressive, 'cos they say "nigger"!

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

J0hn: 2
Vice: 1

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

What is Vice magazine? I don't read mags that are likely offend me.

― C-Man (C-Man), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, that quote is a horseshit piece of writing.

B-B-But the author used the word "plethora!"

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:06 (twenty-one years ago)

"Would you say I have a plethora of pinatas?"

― St. Nicholas Ridiculous (Nick A.), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:07 (twenty-one years ago)

It's horseshit because the writer's using the form of the original quote in a manner that implies that "Irishman", "nigger", "frat boy" and "punk" are all equivalent, plus the writer is trying to have his/her cake and eat it too with this "This concept is so wrong and horrible that I disagree with it, yet I'm going to use it as a thesis metaphor" construct.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

My big issue has little to do with the offensiveness of te word "nigger" and much to do with the apparent inability to be internally coherent.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

But Dan! "PLETHORA!" That's some educated writin' right there.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

if this thread culminates in a re-telling of the time Dan kicked that guy's ass in high school, then I will consider it a success

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I also have an issue when I make a typo in a post criticizing someone else's writing. Grr.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I was giving a friend tips about how to write for Vice yesterday. I would hold this up as a good, attention grabbing intro. The line about 'a horrible, horrible man (my biological father)' is funny.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

another bad metaphor!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG multiple cross-post!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

it wasn't interesting this time Ned :|

I learned a new emoticon from this thread. It's a success!

is that the "bored" or "generally blase" or "ennui" emoticon?

I enjoyed Pieces of April....i give it this emoticon : )

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

i like it better in italics too because it makes his eyes look crooked...more perplexed.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see how it's internally inconsistent, Dan. The writer says the 'horrible horrible man' (his dad) was saying that Irish people were no better than black people (ie he was prejudiced, but just as prejudiced against the white poor as the black poor), and this writer is using the metaphor to say that punks are no better than fratboys.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

'horrible, horrible man' = "i'm not a racist but..." i.e. I am about to say something racist and wish to cover my ass.

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Studs McFuckface, the author of the text, is clearly Gavin McInnes, Vice's 'controversial' publisher. He ends with a piece of libertarian Canadian Ameri-critique: since they're pretty much indistinguishable, the division between punks and frats must be divide and rule on the part of the powers that be.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Because the author is condemming the metaphor while at the same time throwing it at two other groups of people. That's the inconsistency.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Racial amends are made, just to make it super-clear, with 'Jesus, didn't you read Machiavelli when Tupac told you to?'

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

IOW, I do not think it is consistent, fair, or laudable to criticize someone else's prejudice, then co-opt its forms of expression to excuse your own.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, in what context can it possibly be funny that one of your parents is a horrible racist? Is this a white thing?

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

'Hoist on your own petard' makes for quite nice poetic justice, though. What would the French Revolution have been without the sight of those guillotines being used on the very aristocrats who used to use them on everyone else?

It's funny because the loathing is recognisable. It's a voice and a sentiment we know. We loathe our own kin with a special vehemence.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:31 (twenty-one years ago)

What's also quite amusing is the 'equal opportunities' nature of the, ahem, off-colour remark. It's just as racist against the Irish as against the blacks. Now, that also rings true. 100 years of New York's history is a fight between Italians, blacks and Irish to not be at the bottom of the heap. The remark preserves that history.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:33 (twenty-one years ago)

There's also humour in saying 'Now, we cannot say this any more, and it's wrong wrong wrong, but I'm going to say it anyway...'

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha, I was about to retract my last post because I hit "Submit" and then went, "Oh duh, all comedy ever to thread."

As it stands, though, I don't find that line funny at all. This really shouldn't be a surprise as the only thing I've ever read in Vice that I thought was funny was the "Don't" where they captioned a picture of an anorexic girl walking down the street with comments along the lines of "JESUS CHRIST! PUT DOWN THE BURGER, FATTY!!!"

Anyway, you still haven't addressed the point that calling someone an Irishman is not the same thing as calling someone a nigger and how neither of those is like calling someone a punk or a frat boy.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, in what context can it possibly be funny that one of your parents is a horrible racist? Is this a white thing?

Often the "my parent (or grandparent or whatever) is a rascist and listen to this stupid thing they said" comment intended as humor is another poor attempt at "I totally see where you're coming from even though I'm white."

I've actually been guilty of this myself a couple times, and I always felt completely shit about it later on account of I probably shouldn't have brought it up in the first place since it's neither anecdotally funny nor particularly useful. (I mean when would that info be useful other than a situation like "as my non-white significant-other-about-to-meet-my-rascist-family, I just want to give you this warning?")

(Note that my folks aren't rascist at all, but I do have other relatives who are to varying degrees in in varying states of denial.)

big multiple xpost

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought you were into "cutting-edge." That kind of "oooh, I'm so un-PC" humor is as old as anything PJ Harvey co-opts.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

wow that article... sub-Breakfast Club at best.

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

100 years of New York's history is a fight between Italians, blacks and Irish to not be at the bottom of the heap.

On behalf of the WASP Nativists, Orthodox Jews, Dominicans, Haitians and Puerto Ricans, I'd like to extend a big New York FUCK YOU.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 18 June 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 692 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

This thread has been locked by an administrator

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.