2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

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“This election is about misleading, false and discredited attacks that interfere with voters being able to make an informed judgment,” she said.

loooooooool

man i am never gonna hear the end of this when i get home tonight

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/02/23/hillary.speech.cnn?iref=mpvideosview

lol @ Hillary's hype man standing behind her and nodding at everything

BTW I don't think she sounds crazy or desperate or anything in this clip, but I guess Howard Dean didn't either.

Whether she's overreacting or not, who knows. I'm more bummed that Obama would allow his campaign to actually engage in this kind of shit (shifty mailers).

The mailers aren't strictly false.

The Mailers were factual, she supports NAFTA and her healthcare plan WILL force you to pay...

and she's constantly repeating the "OBAMA WANTS TO LEAVE 15 MILLION PEOPLE UNINSURED" talking point, but when he (accurately) says that she will force people to pay (which SHE ACKNOWLEDGED) she goes crazy.

and this is to random because these mailers have been around for months now

he should just bring a copy of the mailer to the debate and go through it point-by-point with her.

They don't seem that shifty to me?

She did support NAFTA. Can't speak to the health care issue.

mad xps

Well, I was just saying they're shifty in tone. They do LOOK like something a 527 might produce, rather than some official Obama campaign literature. If he's going to point out weaknesses, I'd expect him to do it in a completely upfront manner.

Hillary's Hype Man is Ted Strickland, for those tipping him as an Obama veep

i think his campaign has been using some pretty rugged mailers for a long while now. whether it's below the belt or "rovian" i dunno, i haven't seen one!

but yes, hearing that it's destroying core democratic values to attack each other on healthcare policy is, how can i say, hard to take coming from Hillary... and of course it's phrased that to attack one another over "universal" healthcare is the issue. planned outrage, i love it.

And if/when Hil drops out, you don't think he'd take the offer that O would likely make to ensure a pickup in Ohio?

xp

this is some pretty normal campaign shit (both the mailers and the "outrage" over the mailers)

any little thing happens and people are like OMG IT'S GOING NUCULARRRR

planned outrage

goes well with canned zings

ZINGS U CAN XEROX LOLOLZ

The fact that Hillary Clinton has any credibility on healthcare is beyond me.

As far as that video goes - I think her campaign has realized that a) she's just not as inspiring or compelling as Obama and b) the "experience will bring change!" argument isn't working, so their last resort is to basically call him a phony for engaging in campaign tactics that are much less slimy than many of the things that have come out of the Clinton campaign. There was a Slate video recently comparing Clinton to Tracy Flick, and it was hilariously spot-on. I don't think this new line of attack will work. It reinforces the stereotype that she's angry, petty, and grating to listen to, and people who have lost manufacturing jobs in Ohio probably don't care about Obama's campaign tactics. They're more concerned with NAFTA, healthcare, and so on - so the Obama campaign mailing was pretty smart politics.

I only see this argument appealing to people who are already in Clinton's camp and are bitter about Obama's popularity. One person I know who is a huge Clinton fan was recently remarking very spitefully, "Just look how full of himself he is! It's all going to his head, you can just tell!" No wonder her support is so much weaker than his.

xingz u can xerox

that video is kinda whoa! clinton maybe responding to the disappointment over her lack of aggressiveness in the last debate?

meanwhile according to the times shes all mellow and philosophical http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/us/politics/24mood.html

planned outrage

http://poplicks.com/images/iseman-and-maverick.jpg

ha!

"As part of that focus, Mrs. Clinton has avoided giving pep talks to her aides, because a pep talk might suggest that the campaign is heading in an irretrievable direction."

What's that line about boats against the current, borne back ceaselssly into the past?

She might as well come off as a desperate, angry schoolteacher, the media treats her like that anyway, so fuck it. I thought the mailer she has there was pretty despicable, which is why I mentioned above re: not thinking Obama was much interested in doing anything about health care. It's pretty much a dead on copy of the Harry and Louise ads in the early 90's.

no it isn't

I just think Obama's taking a more realistic stance on what can be accomplished re: healthcare. That said, the mailers were gross.

yes, i agree with that

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/17/673452.aspx

let's keep the tall horses of morality stabled, daria

I would reserve "gross" for mailers claiming that oh.... McCain has a black baby.

I should really go watch Election again, though. I'd probably see it completely differently now. Tracy Flick is kind of awesome

hahaha

Harry and Louise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt31nhleeCg

Obama flyer (warning, PDF):
http://www.politico.com/pdf/PPM44_080130_nd_obama_hrc_healthcare_plan_forces_health_insurance2.pdf

let's keep the tall horses of morality stabled, daria

How about no?

Oh yeah, no argument there. South Carolina is second to none in slimy mail campaigns.

I thought that report Jason Jones did on The Daily Show about the company contracted out for most of these underhanded mailing campaigns was pretty hilarious, but also made my skin crawl.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/2008-02-19_hillary_wi_mailer_present_1.jpg

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8U00P7O0&show_article=1

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/harry_louise_again.html

^^^ read the date

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/2008-01-16_hillary_anti-obama_soc_security_cap_1.jpg

xpost: How about yes? Really, as a Clinton supporter you have no room to call out Obama's "gross" tactics when theirs have been much worse, for a long period of time..

Well, I'll shut up then. Bye yall

Finally.

damn dude

props to remy bean for bringin actualfax, though.

yah maybe I was mean. o well, she's annoying

i like daria, and i think she has been a real sport on these threads. but i cannot stand to hear contrived moral outrage over 'dirty politics' from a candidate that has been playing a scuzzy game since the beginning.

I like daria too. Sometimes I get tired of all the OMGOBAMA in this thread, even if I'm responsible for some of it. Also, it's probably best not to live in a bubble.