a thread about the civil unrest in egypt (& elsewhere in 'the region' if necessary)

good article

good luck Syria

Wikileak cables show US secretly backing Syrian protesters

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-secretly-backed-syrian-opposition-groups-cables-released-by-wikileaks-show/2011/04/14/AF1p9hwD_story.html?hpid=z1

I also saw in the Washington Post newsprint a ridiculous letter from Bahrain's ambassador to the US (I think) defending their action of having Saudi Arabian troops come in to put down protestors. He said it was just like American police stopping IMF and World Bank protesters.

The State Department has secretly financed Syrian political opposition groups and related projects, including a satellite TV channel that beams anti-government programming into the country, according to previously undisclosed diplomatic cables

London-based tv by the way

Bob Mayo on Mar 2, 1:42 PM said:
I guess I still do not get it.

How can a bunch of peasants and a few organized Gorilla's take down Eygpt, Libya, (maybe Saudi Arabia) and other countries like this, YET we go to Afphanganistan(sp), Iraq and maybe Pakistan, kick the leader out, yet cannot control these idiots and we end up footing a billion a year a year spending spree. Shouldn't we just START SOME RUMORS and let these people take care of it???

Something is wrong with this whole picture!!!

So when these Governments are overthrown and either cannot reorginize the countries so that they can actually make money again and "SPREAD THE WEALTH" what the hell happens then? What the hell is the point of the overthrow when there is no plan to take over or recover?

So do we AGAIN, come to the rescue, reorganize, put a dictator back in and the rest of the world hates us again??

ha

organized Gorillas

From Radio Free Europe's website

Syria's Interior Ministry says the unrest in the country now amounts to an "armed insurrection," and says the activities of groups causing the unrest will not be tolerated.

The Interior Ministry statement was issued April 18 as thousands of anti-government protesters were reported to have occupied the center of Syria's third largest city, Homs, demanding the ouster of President Bashar al-Assad's regime.

The Reuters news agency quotes activists and witnesses in Homs as saying security forces fired shots and tear gas at protesters in Clock Square after a member of the security forces asked the demonstrators to leave.

There was no confirmation of the report.

Activists earlier said up to 12 people were reported killed in clashes with security forces in Homs on Sunday.

Syria blaming terrorists. There's a certain irony to that.

Good piece in The Atlantic on the state propaganda put out by Bahrain TV.

And Al-Jazeera's complicity...

I wonder if this will really happen and whether it will make a difference?

AMMAN (Reuters) - Syria's government passed a draft law on Tuesday to lift 48 years of emergency rule, a concession to unprecedented demands for greater freedom in the tightly-controlled Arab country

tightly-controlled Arab country

There's part of your problem. They're not all Arabs and they're not all co-religionists.

Syria's government passed a draft law on Tuesday to lift 48 years of emergency rule, a concession to unprecedented demands for greater freedom in the tightly-controlled Arab country

Um, I just read that Syria took out the largest protest with extreme prejudice, and explicitly warned there was more where that came from.

yeah it seems like they're walking a very duplicitous line - "here's yr freedoms, btw I just shot you"

Freedom from life!!!

(brought to you by the Syrian Ba'ath Party)

"you now have the right to get shot"

Apparently they will now be able to kill protestors as part of normal governing and not under "emergency" rules.

x-post to Michael-A brief Reuters story probably doesn't give the writer enough words to discuss the exact demographics of the country and its ruling party.

Oh, I know, curmudgeon. It's such reductionism that makes people misuderstand parts of the situation.

well, this is depressing

like father like son, eh

I was away from news and ilx for the most part since last Wednesday having fun in Bryce and Zion National Parks in southern Utah and am back now to reading the ugly Syria news:

At least 11 people were killed after thousands of soldiers backed by tanks poured into Daraa

from the Washington Post

Also, is the Yemenite prez gonna get immunity in exchange for leaving? I hear that's the deal the Arab League and he want, but not what the people of Yemen want.

lol I was also out of the loop for a few days there and am just catching up. Yemen developments are ... perplexing. anyone got any insights?

Also, is the Yemenite prez gonna get immunity in exchange for leaving

I believe so. But you can go back on that - Pinochet was promised immunity. Say what you have to, and then hang the bastards.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13184427

Mr Saleh agreed on Saturday to hand over power to his deputy within 30 days in exchange for immunity from prosecution.

The Syrian news today is not good at all.
from Time magazine:

Dara'a was not the only Syrian city to feel Assad's wrath on Monday. Activists said security forces also entered Douma and Maadamiah, both on the outskirts of the capital Damascus, and continued to round-up suspected anti-government protesters. Hundreds of people were nabbed on Sunday, according to rights activist Wissam Tarif. In Jabla, a coastal town, at least 12 people were killed overnight by security forces, and dozens arrested

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2067357,00.html#ixzz1KZHAWx5W

Here's an article from CNN offering an overview of Syria and various what-ifs...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/04/25/syria.role/

So what keeps the Syrian economy afloat?

While the US has indicated it will take a tougher stand against Assad and his regime, the New York Times reports that US sanctions have little leverage in the country because Syria has been under some US sanctions for several years already. The hope is that criticism of Assad will be enough leverage to prompt a change in behavior.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2011/0426/After-Syria-crackdown-calls-for-international-action-against-Assad/(page)/2

In 2009 the EU was its largest trading partner. Iran and Lebanon must play a role also.

remember this shit?

President Assad wore a black suit and a charcoal shirt without a tie; Mrs. Assad, a sea-foam green sweater over a sheer top and a white skirt. Her long, honey-colored hair was uncovered. Together they made a kind of visual rhyme with the building: tall, slender and young, they seemed the essence of secular Western-Arab fusion, the elegant doctor-turned-president out on the town with his dazzling British-born Syrian wife, the former J. P. Morgan banker whom Syrians call their Princess Diana.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/10/magazine/10SYRIA.html

ugh jesus

they seemed the essence of secular Western-Arab fusion,

Oppression by Chanel, coming to a perfume counter near you.

"Assad is a dictator, a sponsor of terrorism, (and) a thug," Pletka said. "You could argue he's worse than Gadhafi." But "on Syria, the Arab League is not going to be nearly as forward-leaning. (They're) much closer to Assad."

Among other things, Gadhafi has been accused of trying to have then-Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah assassinated back in 2003. There's a "personal antipathy" factor between Gadhafi and other Arab leaders, Pletka added.

At the same time, Israel may have a hostile relationship with its neighbor, but the Israeli leadership is "very comfortable with the devil it knows" in Damascus.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/04/26/u.s..libya.syria/

The snail-like pace of the UN and the EU on Syria continues:
The UN secretary general has condemned Syria for using tanks and live ammunition against protesters.

Ban ki Moon has called for an independent investigation into recent killings which are reported to have left at least four hundred dead since the middle of last month.

The violence will be debated at the UN Security Council today. The BBC's diplomatic correspondent James Robbins reports.

European Union governments will discuss the possibility of imposing sanctions against Syria on Friday, with various measures being explored, a spokesman for Catherine Ashton, the EU foreign policy chief, said

I just read elsewhere that Assad is having snipers shoot out water tanks in dry, desolate areas where protests have occurred and they are shooting at people who were just trying to pick up dead bodies.

Take your time EU. Although even if the EU cut off Syria completely, Iran and Lebanon and probably China and Russia would still do business with them.

I guess the closer you get to Israel/Palestine the more chaotic the effects of intervention become? This isn't to blame the Israelis or Palestinians, just that regions have a nucleus, and Libya was possible because it was so far away, or uninvolved.

But Assad, a member of Syria's Alawite minority, retains some support, especially among co-religionists who dominate the army and secret police and could lose preferential treatment if majority Sunni Syria was to transform into a democracy.

An alliance between the ruling minority and the Sunni merchant class, forged by the elder Assad through a blend of coercion and the granting of privileges, still holds, robbing protesters of financial backing and a foothold in the old bazaars of Damascus and Aleppo, Syria's second city. Reuters story linked to by tpm

Some 200 members of Syria's ruling Baath party are reported to have resigned over the violent crackdown against pro-democracy demonstrations.

nice

Russia, China and Lebanon are blocking a proposed UN investigation into Syria's actions

Bahrain's crown prince Salman bin Hamad Al Khalifa regretfully declined his invitation to the wedding of England's Prince William and Kate Middleton.

Meanwhile Bahrain's government is putting protestors on trial in secret.

Speaking of which:

"Things can change in a couple of weeks ... so you don't know," said Ecclestone. "All of a sudden everything might be peaceful in a month's time and they are happy to run the event and so we are happy to be there."

Massive protests erupted across Syria on Friday, most significantly in the heart of the capital, Damascus, despite an intensified government crackdown over the past week that sought to put a stop to the anti-government movement.

The Damascene suburbs of Saqba also witnessed huge marches, with protesters chanting "The people want to bring down the regime" and "This is a youth revolution, we're not thugs or terrorists."

Pretty courageous

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2011/04/syria-protests-video.html

wow.

Dozens of people have been shot dead by Syrian security forces, activists claim, as tens of thousands took to the streets in anti-government rallies dubbed a "day of rage".

Activists said at least 50 protesters were killed on Friday, although Al Jazeera cannot independently verify the death tolls.

Thousands of Bahraini Shia have gathered before a revered cleric to denounce death sentences given to protesters over anti-government rallies crushed last month in the Gulf kingdom.

The verdict, handed down by a military court a day earlier to four men accused of killing two policemen in violent protests last month, could intensify sectarian tension in the Sunni Muslim-ruled state that hosts the US Navy's Fifth Fleet.

"It's not true that they killed them," a man who identified himself only as Moussa said, after praying at the mosque of Sheikh Issa Qassim, as a police helicopter circled overhead.

"The government made it up just like a movie."

He was referring to video footage that Bahraini authorities have circulated showing the two policemen smashed by a vehicle that sped through a crowd of protesters, some of whom appeared to then trample and kick the fallen men.

Syrian soldiers stormed a rebel-held mosque Saturday, killing four people including the imam's son, witnesses reported.

The 90-minute massacre in the popular Omari mosque was a new low-point in the bloody six-week uprising that, according to the head of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, has left more than 535 dead.

The predawn attack on Daraa, home of the mosque, involved four tanks, 20 armored vehicles and heavily armed troops, according to residents.

The southern city has been without electricity, water and phone service since Monday, when the government sent in tanks to destroy demonstrations.

Seems to me like the Syrian Army has Assad's back. The best hope for the protestors would be a highly successful general strike sort of action, proving that the country is united against Assad, and further intransigence from him will shut down the whole country's economy.

But Assad, a member of Syria's Alawite minority, retains some support, especially among co-religionists who dominate the army and secret police and could lose preferential treatment if majority Sunni Syria was to transform into a democracy.

An alliance between the ruling minority and the Sunni merchant class, forged by the elder Assad through a blend of coercion and the granting of privileges, still holds, robbing protesters of financial backing and a foothold in the old bazaars of Damascus and Aleppo, Syria's second city. Reuters story linked to by tpm

― curmudgeon, Wednesday, April 27, 2011

NY Times article from last week re Syria with some interesting points:

Syrian leaders tend to keep their money in European and Middle Eastern banks, putting it beyond the reach of the Treasury.

Disarray in Syria could threaten Israel’s security more directly. While Israeli officials point out that Mr. Assad has hardly been a friend of Israel, if he were replaced by a militant Sunni government, this could pose even greater dangers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/30/world/middleeast/30policy.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2

Ca we dream that in a post-Bin Laden world, more attention will be placed on supporting democracy and on the Israeli/Palestinian issues (albeit that the above mentioned items in prior posts will still complicate things as will Iran and the Taliban)

VOA News on the sad Yemen situation:

Unrest has left one demonstrator dead in Yemen's south after the unraveling of a deal that would have eased Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh out of power.

Officials say the army opened fired on protesters in the port city of Aden Monday, killing one demonstrator.

These Iranian comments on Bahrain are always amusing:

Iran's foreign minister warned Monday of "bad repercussions" from the situation in Bahrain where authorities are accused of oppressing the Shiite majority after crushing a month-old protest.

Ali Akbar Salehi also renewed Tehran's strong criticism of Gulf countries for sending troops to tiny Bahrain, boosting Bahraini security forces in their crackdown on the Shiites who led the pro-democracy uprising.

"We are sure that if the status quo persist in Bahrain, it will have bad repercussions on the region that no one would like," Salehi told reporters in Doha following talks with the Qatari leadership.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hwx88O7c9HxwNzQx4Raqeh4Romzg?docId=CNG.4ec0d644f5638e40f182b6d39cbee4b3.631