Canadian Politics Thread

i don't think they even would have needed a "left leaning" economist. just an economist would do.

latest EKOS poll (done yesterday) has Cons and Libs within 5% points!

When your opponents all gang up on you and you manage to hang in there without letting anyone hit a knockout blow, then I think it's fair to call that a "win". I'm assuming that Harper had some backup arguments to make in case he felt they were hitting him hard, but besides Iggy's "that's not bickering, that's how democracy works" zing, Harper was never in serious trouble.

Iggy's biggest problem wasn't offense, it was defense. He went in there with his prepared points but as soon as anything went off script (like when others attacked him) he couldn't improvise and struck out on a couple of softballs, like Layton's criticism of his attendance record and the corporate tax cuts thing with Harper.

It's really too bad the corporate tax discussion went nowhere.

anyone watching the fr?

I might try to catch it later online. Let me know how it is.

oh - i'll be watching hockey!

Was going to listen on the radio but apparently the Ceeb had other ideas tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQm0t1v2wOM&feature=channel_video_title

The link doesn't work for me.

i will vote for whoever local hipster icons tell me to vote for

http://www.stephenharperisatotallynormalguy.com/

Uh, I don't think that actually helps.

sort of gives normal people a bad name, you're right.

The debate is weird in French. Layton's way of talking is different than in English but I can't really explain how. It just is. His 'French voice' is more appealing.

Also some silly questions from a poll reported on Global:

Forgetting about their policies for a moment, who do you find to be the most likeable. That is, the person you would most like to go out for a beer or coffee with?
Stephen Harper 25%
Michael Ignatieff 10%
Jack Layton 53%
Gilles Duceppe 6%
Don’t know 6%

Which party leader do you think is the most visually attractive?
Stephen Harper 31%
Michael Ignatieff 9%
Jack Layton 38%
Gilles Duceppe 10%
Don’t know 12%

Sorry but wtf these percentages, Iggy may not have been a master debater but he is by far the best looking of this lot.

Layton is always really well groomed and looks very healthy and happy. Ignatieff's a bit of a slouch.

i would have to go with harper. he could stand to hit a treadmill maybe, but i think i would have gone with him!

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A younger Ignatieff

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Srbr7Wvfnes/SYTGaZHOlbI/AAAAAAAAGYo/0B6eq5k6p_g/s320/ignatieff_book.jpg

vs student Duceppe?

http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes2004/images/prof_duceppe_univ.jpg

omg @ duceppe!

Compared with:

http://www.njnnetwork.com/njn/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/harper.jpg

vs http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Zje-LJX3TPY/TY1y8bXmvII/AAAAAAAAAVg/1zJyg4pQsbI/s200/66222472-michael-ignatieff.jpg

gis pics of young Harper i found this, btw:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d22/daveberta2/StephenHarper.jpg

this was the only young pic of him i could find (without that i would have had to assume he was born at the age of 42).
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7g7vq7oz8bE/TDH6elA093I/AAAAAAAADY8/IqOVy98T0Uk/s1600/007_harper_plaid.jpg

Guess who??

http://fawny.org/blog/images/ThatsJackLayton.jpg

Also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfmzvwrub_8

The Harper photo just above: 1) I'll give him one thing--he had a great sleepy-eyed '70s look about him; 2) It's been driving me insane trying to figure out who he looks exactly like in that photo...I've gone back to it at least 10 times, and it's just not coming to me. I think it's a secondary character in some movie. When it finally clicks in, I'll try to post the two side-by-side.

Getting the exact same vibe from that Harper photo. Have definitely seen that face in a movie or old TV series.

Travolta resemblance? Is that it?

70s teenage homer simpson?

there's definitely a bit of a resemblance

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7g7vq7oz8bE/TDH6elA093I/AAAAAAAADY8/IqOVy98T0Uk/s1600/007_harper_plaid.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bngNvVpYNjI/SxNK7lz3HpI/AAAAAAAAAt4/3v0u-fyw71Y/s1600/HomerSimpson8.gif

Post-debate polls seem to show the CPC slipping slightly (greatly if you believe EKOS), LPC holding steady, and NDP fully recovering their losses. If this continues, a majority seems unlikely. There's a chance we'll see some NDP influence in the next government, regardless of who leads it.

I got a call for that poll last night. I lied and said I was 100% positively voting Liberal. In truth I am in Mulclair's riding, and I'll likely vote for him. But I figured the Liberals would benefit the most from an upswing in the polls.

The Homer thing is funny, but no, it's very specific. I'm starting to wonder if he looks like someone I went to high school with. It's still driving me up the wall. I will figure it out eventually. (No, not Travolta either.)

Anyone have any bets on whether the NDP will take any more seats in Quebec? They seem to be gaining at the BQ's expense. Duceppe's English-language debate performance seemed designed to appeal to hard separatists, which may push away the progressive-not-separatist portion of the BQ base. I assume he behaved the same way in the French debate. I don't know if the NDP's support is concentrated enough in any key ridings though.

the NDP are only even slightly close in 1 other riding (forget which) in Quebec. so - they could gain 1 - not likely - but i would be shocked if it was more. shocked!

yeah the NDP support is very spread out in Quebec, whereas the liberal and conservative support is concentrated in certain areas. They'll probably come in second in a lot of ridings but I doubt they are gonna take more than the Outremont riding.

Yeah someone was saying they might have a shot in Aylmer but otherwise it's pretty much Bloc or Conservatives for most regions outside Montreal.

Our debates don't seem to get this intense anymore:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyYjRmM7RDY

"The uploader has not made this video available in your country"--that sounds about right. It'll be of great interest in Myanmar, so hopefully the uploader has made it available there.

Anyway, if it's the "You did have an option, sir" clip, yes, most dramatic. I was rooting for Turner, and would have voted for him, but I got caught up in the moment anyway. Plus, Mulroney hadn't quite worn out his welcome at that point.

I guess it's not that clip, which had to do with patronage--this one's supposed to concern free trade.

Regarding the NDP support in Quebec, and in general, this article gives some food for thought. Especially since the NDP are apparently polling in first place in BC and doing a lot better than anyone expects in PQ right now.

with the option of Jack Layton as prime minister, 44 per cent of Quebec would vote NDP, 10 per cent more than for the Bloc. That poll is from a year ago, but there's probably a good reason that Gilles Duceppe's campaign involves stressing to voters that Layton will never become prime minister.

This is the crazy thing, the difference between Layton and Broadbent: people loved Broadbent, but they weren't willing to make him prime minister if it meant voting for his party. Today, people love Layton and they aren't afraid of an NDP-led government: if there is an option for an NDP-Liberal coalition, people prefer Layton and his party to lead more than two to one. The problem is, they just don't think it's going to happen.

When Egyptians succeeded in deposing Hosni Mubarak in February, what was revealed to them and to the world was that what had seemed impossible had been entirely possible. Their situation was much as that facing Canadians now: it was precisely their continued belief in the impossibility of achieving what they wanted which perpetuated its impossibility.

So the question to Canadians is: why not vote NDP, leave the Liberals in the wilderness, strike a blow against Quebec separatism and get the government you want? All that's stopping you is the belief that it can't happen.

not what i expected when i clicked your link!

LOL. Ooops. Here it is:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/douglas-bell/and-now-a-word-from-our-ndp-conscience/article1982035/

Ha.

Clemenza, are you in the US? I'm in Canada (obv) and can access the clip. I was actually originally searching for video of the "You had an option, sir" exchange but couldn't find it.

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Nah, I'm sitting in a Brampton schoolroom right now. Maybe it's some kind of firewall my board has set up, but we can access YouTube otherwise.

Oh, here it is!:
http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/federal_politics/topics/1181-6516/

For all that I loathe Mulroney, what a powerful speaker.

The clips are region-locked outside of Canada, or at least, I can't view either of the ones posted recently. Anything hosted on CBC's own site will work for me though. I've never run into region-locking there!

[but sund4r your link seems to be a lost page, can you re-post?]

Opened up the Turner-Mulroney clip at home--great! Turner on substance ("cancellable on six months' notice"--regardless of whether you were for or against NAFTA, that's a big "yeah, sure"), Mulroney on style. Turner comes across as feckless.