Canadian Politics Thread

holy shit - it's been 90 minutes already!

I know!

"alternative service delivery"

"We need a low-tax system where we can continue to fund health care..."

Iggy losing his temper is not a good look for him

Ha, excellent final question!

Iggy has been largely appalling here, to my great dismay.

"mr harper is offing you"

I'm actually pretty offended by Duceppe's constant references to "Quebec and Canada".

You know what that debate was missing? A female perspective. Shame there isn't a female party leader who could have been, y'know, included.

whatever. she can get a seat in the house first.

OTM

Well, that was fun. Iggy looked overwhelmed and not completely up to the challenge, but the others were more or less true to form.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/realitycheck/2011/04/fact-checking-the-leaders-debate.html

It's kind of depressing the way this supposedly ended up as a Harper victory (because he "survived") while at the same time moving the media on from the G8 cash scandal. I mean, Harper essentially stood there saying "it's simply not true" for two hours in the calmest voice money can buy, and somehow ends up "winning"?

His main competitor failed to either articulately nail him on the truth and importance of those charges - to create a "You had an option, sir" moment - or to articulately sell his own (impressive) platform. Spending more time explaining what the Learning Passport is and why it would be good for Canadians would have helped more than going on about KAIROS's funding or about the gun registry.

I was going to say that political debates work very differently from academic discussions and so it may have been hard for Ignatieff to adjust. But, actually, if Ignatieff had chosen to stick to a scholarly approach and had actually presented and explained well-researched, clearly cited evidence of Harper's errors, that would have worked much better than what he did.

I mean, Harper tried to do back himself up that way by e.g. citing Jack Mintz on corporate tax cuts. Ignatieff (or Layton) could have easily jumped in with a contrary citation from Jim Stanford or another left-leaning economist. At the very least, it would have made Harper's position seem less authoritative.

"tried to back himself up"

i don't think they even would have needed a "left leaning" economist. just an economist would do.

latest EKOS poll (done yesterday) has Cons and Libs within 5% points!

When your opponents all gang up on you and you manage to hang in there without letting anyone hit a knockout blow, then I think it's fair to call that a "win". I'm assuming that Harper had some backup arguments to make in case he felt they were hitting him hard, but besides Iggy's "that's not bickering, that's how democracy works" zing, Harper was never in serious trouble.

Iggy's biggest problem wasn't offense, it was defense. He went in there with his prepared points but as soon as anything went off script (like when others attacked him) he couldn't improvise and struck out on a couple of softballs, like Layton's criticism of his attendance record and the corporate tax cuts thing with Harper.

It's really too bad the corporate tax discussion went nowhere.

anyone watching the fr?

I might try to catch it later online. Let me know how it is.

oh - i'll be watching hockey!

Was going to listen on the radio but apparently the Ceeb had other ideas tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQm0t1v2wOM&feature=channel_video_title

The link doesn't work for me.

i will vote for whoever local hipster icons tell me to vote for

http://www.stephenharperisatotallynormalguy.com/

Uh, I don't think that actually helps.

sort of gives normal people a bad name, you're right.

The debate is weird in French. Layton's way of talking is different than in English but I can't really explain how. It just is. His 'French voice' is more appealing.

Also some silly questions from a poll reported on Global:

Forgetting about their policies for a moment, who do you find to be the most likeable. That is, the person you would most like to go out for a beer or coffee with?
Stephen Harper 25%
Michael Ignatieff 10%
Jack Layton 53%
Gilles Duceppe 6%
Don’t know 6%

Which party leader do you think is the most visually attractive?
Stephen Harper 31%
Michael Ignatieff 9%
Jack Layton 38%
Gilles Duceppe 10%
Don’t know 12%

Sorry but wtf these percentages, Iggy may not have been a master debater but he is by far the best looking of this lot.

Layton is always really well groomed and looks very healthy and happy. Ignatieff's a bit of a slouch.

i would have to go with harper. he could stand to hit a treadmill maybe, but i think i would have gone with him!

xpost

A younger Ignatieff

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Srbr7Wvfnes/SYTGaZHOlbI/AAAAAAAAGYo/0B6eq5k6p_g/s320/ignatieff_book.jpg

vs student Duceppe?

http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes2004/images/prof_duceppe_univ.jpg

omg @ duceppe!

Compared with:

http://www.njnnetwork.com/njn/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/harper.jpg

vs http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Zje-LJX3TPY/TY1y8bXmvII/AAAAAAAAAVg/1zJyg4pQsbI/s200/66222472-michael-ignatieff.jpg

gis pics of young Harper i found this, btw:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d22/daveberta2/StephenHarper.jpg

this was the only young pic of him i could find (without that i would have had to assume he was born at the age of 42).
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7g7vq7oz8bE/TDH6elA093I/AAAAAAAADY8/IqOVy98T0Uk/s1600/007_harper_plaid.jpg

Guess who??

http://fawny.org/blog/images/ThatsJackLayton.jpg

Also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfmzvwrub_8

The Harper photo just above: 1) I'll give him one thing--he had a great sleepy-eyed '70s look about him; 2) It's been driving me insane trying to figure out who he looks exactly like in that photo...I've gone back to it at least 10 times, and it's just not coming to me. I think it's a secondary character in some movie. When it finally clicks in, I'll try to post the two side-by-side.

Getting the exact same vibe from that Harper photo. Have definitely seen that face in a movie or old TV series.

Travolta resemblance? Is that it?

70s teenage homer simpson?

there's definitely a bit of a resemblance

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7g7vq7oz8bE/TDH6elA093I/AAAAAAAADY8/IqOVy98T0Uk/s1600/007_harper_plaid.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bngNvVpYNjI/SxNK7lz3HpI/AAAAAAAAAt4/3v0u-fyw71Y/s1600/HomerSimpson8.gif

Post-debate polls seem to show the CPC slipping slightly (greatly if you believe EKOS), LPC holding steady, and NDP fully recovering their losses. If this continues, a majority seems unlikely. There's a chance we'll see some NDP influence in the next government, regardless of who leads it.

I got a call for that poll last night. I lied and said I was 100% positively voting Liberal. In truth I am in Mulclair's riding, and I'll likely vote for him. But I figured the Liberals would benefit the most from an upswing in the polls.