2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

http://www.truthdig.com/images/eartothegrounduploads/AP_hillary_calculations_300.jpg
obama drinkin my milkshake :(

On the question of who's further to the left on economic policy: isn't Obama in favor of lifting the income cap for social security taxes, which Clinton has criticized as a massive tax increase?

I was like who is Daniel Plainview? thanks. As far as knowing nothing but resolve to triumph.. well, that is unprovable but can be used as a narrative to explain everything that person does in a negative way. (Now I have to see this movie which I suspect I will not like much just to see if there are other things going on with this character.)

http://www.johnmccainisyourjalopy.com/

That's why I'll always regard Bill Clinton as an average or below-average president.

Because -- unlike top tier Presidents -- Bill Clinton was too ambitious? Hmm. . .

BILL CLINTON DRINKS YOUR MILKSHAKE.

A somewhat amusing take on why Dems have tired of the Clintons:

Why Democrats Are Kicking the Clintons to the Curb

I think the view that supporting Clinton is the feminist thing to do, is the kind of identity politics that Obama is trying to transcend. I think a lot of women find Obama's move appealing. Doing so doesn't make you anti-women, though it does make you anti-a-particular-woman.

BILL CLINTON DRINKS YOUR MILKSHAKE! HE DRINKS IT UP! Better.

Because -- unlike top tier Presidents -- Bill Clinton was too ambitious? Hmm. .

Clinton was nothing BUT ambition.

I like There Will Be Blood because, to quote Obama's critics, I can project whatever I want onto that blank canvas.

Peter Beinart discusses Obama and the "white, working class vote" problem:

Courting Joe Six-Pack

Hillary on GTA was one of her best moments afaic

Why Democrats are Kicking the Clintons to the Curb - WE NEVER LIKED THEM THAT MUCH. WE LIKED THAT THEY WON.

but now we have a guy who is winninger

We like Bill when he's a Good Time Charlie, not when he's talking trash. Part of the good side of "slick" was the idea that he kept his eye on the ball (his job) even when all the Whitewater craziness was coming down on him.

Ann Richards is much more the female Bill Clinton than Hillary is.

"eye on the ball" = bombing Kosovo and Sudan when it was convenient? passing NAFTA? demolishing welfare? passing the Telecom Act? Telling the FDA to permit pharmaceutical advertising?

Ann Richardson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hillary

Sure, Shakey, compared to going negative on the Republicans.

It's like that quote I posted from the National Review on last night's debate: Hillary could say she's giving everyone a hundred bucks and the reponse would be tepid; Obama could say he's taking a hundred bucks from everyone and get folks cheering. Bill C. had the latter style.

eh, I guess so. Although I've always thought ordering the deaths of innocents to deflect media attention from your blowjobs during a particular news cycle was the height of wrongness.

x-post

Lorie Byrd is a Townhall.com columnist
ugh. I thought that column was written by a right winger.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1715434,00.html

^^^this is an on-point summation of the debate

"eye on the ball" = bombing Kosovo and Sudan when it was convenient? passing NAFTA? demolishing welfare? passing the Telecom Act? Telling the FDA to permit pharmaceutical advertising?

lol leaving out the popular at the time: trying to bomb some guy named osama bin whatever???

well the Sudan and Afghan strikes were part of the same operation (Operation Infinite Reach lolz)

Sudan slightly less defensible since it actually killed/harmed innocent people.

(and this is a separate issue entirely but I don't really understand why the US thinks the most effective way to assassinate somebody is to indiscriminately bomb places - very weird)

and kosovo indefensible because you know: who cares abt looming genocide.

Kosovo indefensible because it could've been avoided if appropriate parties had intervened earlier

but they didnt did they - so then what

the characterization of this situation as a media play by bill is just so wtf

jhøshea, OTM

I'm referring specifically to the remarkably "coincidental" timing of both bombing campaigns with significant events in the Lewinsky scandal

yah i think we all got that part

i think thats bullshit, its not like he was running for reelection and really needed a boost in the polls. the lewinsky thing was there no matter what

i think conservatives must really be relishing this sudden change of heart by dems re: clinton, they've hated that dude forever

and its a very irrational hatred, not very linked to ideology

I think given Bubba's "always respond in the same news cycle"-style of press relations the coincidences are rather telling.

x-post

(but yeah I confess this is me at my most conspiracy theorist-y)

I mostly liked Clinton as Pres. I thought he was too far to the right, of course, but considering the national mood, I wasn't sure any further to the left could get elected, but man, the shit he pulled when he left, kind of finally pushed me over the edge.

to be fair to BC, i think his presidency was so painted into the "scandal" corner by various things that it became sort of impossible for him to do anything that wasn't perceived in some way as being related to whatever the scandal of the week was.

to be fair to BC's critics, a lot of what he did did seem sort of related to image damage control, so that sometimes it got hard even for those inclined toward sympathy to tell which things were and which weren't.

regardless of all that, didn't clinton leave office with relatively high approval ratings? this seems weirdly at odds with the perception that HRC is hated by everyone

bill /= hill

2008 democratic primaries rosetta stone ^^^

Clinton's approval rating never dropped below 55%

which is more than you can say for some *ahem* presidents

most of the public didn't know or care about the hit on welfare, the Telecom Act, or executing mentally retarded black men.

My parents despise(d) Clinton more than I do, and they had no clue about these things; their hate was of the irrational Limbaugh variety.

HilaryBlog:

CNN's Campbell Brown notes a 'standing ovation' in response to Hillary's closing remarks.

CNN political analyst David Gergen - Hillary's last statement 'was the most effective moment she's had on television, I believe, since the New Hampshire primary… she really scored on that.'

Politico's Ben Smith - 'Clinton's answer was a stronger performance.' "Clinton's answer was a stronger performance; Obama seems like he's about ready to get out of here."

CNN's Bill Schneider - Hillary 'just made an effective argument against John McCain.' "Clinton just made an effective argument against John McCain: Though the Arizona senator is a champion against wasteful spending, Clinton pointed to his support for the Bush tax cuts and the war in Iraq - both colossal expenditures unpopular with most Democrats."

NBC News' Chuck Todd - Hillary 'had a couple of very good moments on health care and the economy.' "Did she potentially win this debate on points; I think so; it was close but she had a couple of VERY good moments on health care and the economy that probably scored well in the various focus groups of undecided voters watching this debate."

New Republic's Michael Crowley - 'The subject of health care always brings out a formidable passion and policy fluency in Hillary.' "So much of the time politicians just seem to be going through the motions when debating the issues. But the subject of health care always brings out a formidable passion and policy fluency in Hillary. People can call her a phony for all kinds of reasons but it's clear she really gets and cares about this stuff."

ABC News' Rick Klein - Hillary 'sounds calm, in charge, deliberate.'

MyDD's Todd Beeton - 'Hillary Clinton just hit that closing response out of the park.' "Hillary Clinton just hit that closing response out of the park."

Politico's Ben Smith - 'Clinton's answer was a stronger performance.' "Clinton's answer was a stronger performance; Obama seems like he's about ready to get out of here."

this especially was o_O to me

so maybe PRESS <3's MCCAIN is officially over now?

"John McCain’s campaign plane is usually a pretty jovial place to be. […]

But in the aftermath of today’s New York Times story looking at McCain’s dealings with a Washington lobbyist, the mood is decidedly different. Before McCain boarded his plane, reporters were asked to sit farther back than usual on the plane. And when McCain finally boarded the plane, he failed to offer his usual wave at reporters and opted to quickly take his seat. During the flight, the cabin was unusually quiet, save a few quick discussions McCain had with top aides Steve Schmidt and Mark Salter. Near the end of the flight, Schmidt came back to the press cabin, where, with cameras off, he railed against the New York Times for publishing its story.

The conservative "Swift Boat" attack machinery is gearing up for Obama:

Obama may face grilling on patriotism