a thread about the civil unrest in egypt (& elsewhere in 'the region' if necessary)

Read the comments on the Vogue article -they eventually get negative but at first there was this one:

In the midst of the chaos in the Middle East today, it is refreshing to read about Mrs. Assad. Polished, poised, well-educated, articulate, beautiful, she is a woman to admire in these tumultuous times.
Posted 2/25/2011 2:25:27pm

Is it wrong to be darkly amused by the NYTimes headline indicating that Al Qaeda in Yemen is taking advantage of the national chaos there to resume plotting against US targets? The implication being that they've just been biding their time, and the second they get a chance, bam, their monomaniacal inclinations compels them to immediately resume plotting against the US above all else.

Beware an impending rash of underwear bombs capable of singing the front part of an armrest

Ha. That is the Yemen argument.

http://m.smh.com.au/world/aljazeera-is-changing-minds-and-hearts-20110408-1d7rj.html

lovin this domain name

so is it me or does this pattern seem to be fizzling out under a grim fist of repression (bahrain, yemen, syria)

Well, that was always going to be the case - the revolution would start in the most vulnerable societies and would eventually end up in places like Bahrain and Libya, where the force the people would meet would be great. It would help a great deal if the west wouldn't insist on defending countries like Bahrain from the same forces it's supporting elsewhere.

Bahrain is a sad situation. The folks in power and in the know worldwide just assume that the people there are pawns of Iran thus they have to be stuck with their current system

Bahrain is much more related to Saudi Arabia than Iran - hell, my Dad spent time there during the '90 Iraq war. Given Saudi's commitment to the regime in Bahrain any support for the protests there becomes anti-saudi. Perhaps it's time to say 'so be it'.

Saudi Arabia is committed to the Bahrainian government which is non-Shia, because it does not want Bahrain's Shia population to get power and possibly be connected with Iran's Shia fundamentalist government.

^^ in a nutshell

Saudia Arabia

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/amid-the-arab-spring-obamas-dilemma-over-saudi-arabia/2011/04/07/AFhILDxC_story.html

Martin Indyk from the Brookings Instit.:

President Obama urgently needs to negotiate a new compact with King Abdullah. He has to find a way to convince him that defining a road map that leads to constitutional monarchies in his neighborhood, and eventually in Saudi Arabia, is the only effective way to secure his kingdom and the interests of his subjects. Abdullah has been willing to undertake important reforms in the past. But if the king is to be persuaded to embark on this road again, he will need to know that the president will provide a secure safety net of support, rather than undermine him. And he will need to know that the United States will not make a deal with his Iranian enemies at Saudi expense.

Just heard on the BBC that an Egyptian blogger was imprisoned for three years, by the military government, for criticizing the military. So it begins. Again.

Fuck.

AP Wire story on Egypt

Rights groups have criticized the new military rulers for arbitrary arrests and speedy trials for civilians, saying their activities were reminiscent of those of the former regime.

Ramadan said more than 10,000 civilians have been convicted and sentenced by military tribunals since the army took over two months ago.

Military trials are swift, do not follow the procedures and rules of evidence of civil courts and their sentences cannot be appealed.

It's tough to stay positive when the world is so fucking bleak. That is awful.

Yemen president won't leave

Eleven suspected al-Qaeda militants have been killed and many others injured in a series of raids by security forces in Yemen's southern province of Abyan late last week

This seems like a ploy to keep the West off his back, as he had been ignoring US requests re Al-Qaeda for a year or so

Egypt's former President Hosni Mubarak has been taken to hospital in Sharm el-Sheikh, security sources say.

lolz going for the classic "too ill to stand trial" gambit

In Bahrain (from NY Times):

Human rights groups say arrests of medical workers are meant to instill terror in doctors, so they will not care for wounded protesters

And I guess "experts" are still saying that the Bahrain government is better than what could happen there if Bahrain's Shia were no longer 2nd class citizens (when they will be bought off by the fundamentalist Shia Iranians or just subjected to Iranian influence). I guess that is a concern but surely there must be some middle ground way (no matter how complicated it would be to bring it about).

the Bahrain government is better than what could happen there if Bahrain's Shia were no longer 2nd class citizens

better for who

Saudis are simply not going to let a Shi'a gov't exist on their doorstep. that's the problem

Right--better for the Saudi government and for those experts convinced that a Sh'ia government there would take marching orders from Iran. The current system is obviously not good for Bahrain's Shia citizens.

seems totally reasonable to assume the Iranians would be interested in exerting influence over a shi'a gov't in Bahrain. Seeing as how they like to flex their muscles with every other shi'a group in existence.

better for whom

For those who didn't see it, here are the Google satellite images that set off the Bahraini protests.

Its not just constitutional monarchy, Sunni vs. Shia, but the masses crowded in Manama vs the princes who own the other 90% of the island.

Meanwhile in Syria, the UN Secretary-General has everything worked out:

The Secretary-General told Mr. Assad that the killing of peaceful demonstrators was unacceptable and should be investigated, according to information released by his spokesperson. He noted that Mr. Assad intends to launch an inquiry and encouraged him to move quickly on this front.

well there you go then

"Apparently I ordered it. Who knew?"

"my bad!"

terrifying CNN report tonight on continued repression in Bahrain, firing birdshot cannons into the slums, arresting doctors and nurses, etc.

seems totally reasonable to assume the Iranians would be interested in exerting influence over a shi'a gov't in Bahrain. Seeing as how they like to flex their muscles with every other shi'a group in existence.

― in my world of loose geirs (Shakey Mo Collier

So Shakey, how if you were in a position of influence, would you get human and political rights for all Bahrainians while keeping their government from being taken over by fundamentalists influenced by Iran?

Syrian activists reported disruptions to phone and Internet access and electricity in areas where protests have broken out, after authorities vowed to crush what they called a conspiracy against the regime

I guess they're gonna tell the UN they are crushing the conspiracy without intentionally killing anyone.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-13/syrian-activists-report-phone-power-blackouts-amid-crackdown-on-protests.html

Status updates:

Bahrain's people are stuck because of their own government, the Saudi government and the Iranian government.

Assad is not showing any signs of allowing positive change in Syria.

Yemen might change but it might not.

So Shakey, how if you were in a position of influence, would you get human and political rights for all Bahrainians while keeping their government from being taken over by fundamentalists influenced by Iran?

overthrow the governments of Iran and Saudi Arabia first

guess that would depend on how "influential" my position is, hypothetically

The Bahrain government has different ideas than you. here's there latest:

Bahrain has filed lawsuits to disband two Shiite opposition groups including the powerful Al-Wefaq party, state media said Thursday, a month after Sunni rulers crushed Shiite-led protests.

nothing to see here folks, just a little harmless political oppression amirite

interesting article on Syrian protesters

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/15/syria-protests-silent-majority

good article

good luck Syria

Wikileak cables show US secretly backing Syrian protesters

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-secretly-backed-syrian-opposition-groups-cables-released-by-wikileaks-show/2011/04/14/AF1p9hwD_story.html?hpid=z1

I also saw in the Washington Post newsprint a ridiculous letter from Bahrain's ambassador to the US (I think) defending their action of having Saudi Arabian troops come in to put down protestors. He said it was just like American police stopping IMF and World Bank protesters.

The State Department has secretly financed Syrian political opposition groups and related projects, including a satellite TV channel that beams anti-government programming into the country, according to previously undisclosed diplomatic cables

London-based tv by the way

Bob Mayo on Mar 2, 1:42 PM said:
I guess I still do not get it.

How can a bunch of peasants and a few organized Gorilla's take down Eygpt, Libya, (maybe Saudi Arabia) and other countries like this, YET we go to Afphanganistan(sp), Iraq and maybe Pakistan, kick the leader out, yet cannot control these idiots and we end up footing a billion a year a year spending spree. Shouldn't we just START SOME RUMORS and let these people take care of it???

Something is wrong with this whole picture!!!

So when these Governments are overthrown and either cannot reorginize the countries so that they can actually make money again and "SPREAD THE WEALTH" what the hell happens then? What the hell is the point of the overthrow when there is no plan to take over or recover?

So do we AGAIN, come to the rescue, reorganize, put a dictator back in and the rest of the world hates us again??

ha

organized Gorillas

From Radio Free Europe's website

Syria's Interior Ministry says the unrest in the country now amounts to an "armed insurrection," and says the activities of groups causing the unrest will not be tolerated.

The Interior Ministry statement was issued April 18 as thousands of anti-government protesters were reported to have occupied the center of Syria's third largest city, Homs, demanding the ouster of President Bashar al-Assad's regime.

The Reuters news agency quotes activists and witnesses in Homs as saying security forces fired shots and tear gas at protesters in Clock Square after a member of the security forces asked the demonstrators to leave.

There was no confirmation of the report.

Activists earlier said up to 12 people were reported killed in clashes with security forces in Homs on Sunday.

Syria blaming terrorists. There's a certain irony to that.

Good piece in The Atlantic on the state propaganda put out by Bahrain TV.

And Al-Jazeera's complicity...