a thread about the civil unrest in egypt (& elsewhere in 'the region' if necessary)

Britain, France and the US, along with several Arab countries, are to join forces to throw a protective ring around the Libyan rebel stronghold of Benghazi as soon as a UN security council vote on military action is authorised, according to security council sources.

A source at UN headquarters in New York said military forces could be deployed "within hours" of a new security council resolution calling for states to protect civilians by halting attacks by Muammar Gaddafi's forces by air, land and sea.

The resolution would impose a no-fly zone over Libya – but a no-fly zone was no longer enough, the source said. "The resolution authorises air strikes against tank columns advancing on Benghazi or engaging naval ships bombarding Benghazi," he said.

Britain, France and Lebanon sponsored the new resolution, which provides the moral and legal basis for military action.

British and French forces are understood to have been placed on standby, after the US said it was prepared to support the measure if Arab countries agreed to take an active role.

The security council was scheduled to vote on the new resolution this evening, and its backers expressed confidence it would pass after hours of negotiation.

that.... seems crazy. how is that possible

i'm picturing troops appearing out of thin air a la Risk or something. does seem very weird.

lol @ Hillary noting Qadafi's essentially evil nature

I know that in some ways this seems too late but I still think there was no way the US or any other western country could have preempted the Arab League and the UN without a shitstorm. If China and Russia don't veto it and this gets passed, I'm optimistic about military action for the first time. The prospects for the surviving rebels if Gaddafi crushes the uprising is grim.

Yeah this was completely unexpected...even when the US started making noises I assumed it was because they knew it was all over anyway.

i have to say this does not look good to me

really looks like one of those obamoid compromise plans that will offend nobody completely, satisfy nobody likewise, and may not even work very well. the goal is not necc to depose gaddafi, but aid in holding benghazi? for how long?

yeah I don't really get what the long-range plan is here. what's the exit strategy.

if we're going to intervene, may as well go all in and just kill Kadhafee

just guessing here, but holding Benghazi means a respite for the rebels to train and rearm so that they can kill Cuhdahfie? not sure what the goal here is

kill=overthrow

like I said waaaay upthread, no insurgency can succeed without a) the support of the majority of the populace and b) a steady supply of weapons. At this point, (a) looks pretty questionable, and (b) looks like it will require a long-term commitment. Even with western support, it's still gonna be a bunch of unemployed dentists with machine guns vs. Khadawfy's military + mercenaries + whatever tribal support he has. Not really a promising scenario.

I know it violates all international laws and establishes terrible precedents but it's situations like this where it's clear that decapitation (ie, a targeted assassination of Qudhafi) would solve the problem instanter

the C'd'phé sons could conceivably be even worse

UN approves airstrikes

wow

this is getting really unpredictable

“We are coming tonight,” Colonel Qaddafi said. “You will come out from inside. Prepare yourselves from tonight. We will find you in your closets.”

http://tundratabloids.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/GADAFFI-THE-DRAG-QUEEN.jpg

"want the world to know, gotta let it show, I'm coming ... out"

Part of me will miss him.

http://nowlebanon.com/Library/Images/Uploaded%20Images/blog/Muammar_al-Gaddafi-main-349857.jpg

Gingrich said, "I think Eisenhower and Reagan would have said you know this is a very serious situation, and then they would have said to the CIA, Gadhafi needs to get out of there and it would have happened quietly, it would not have used military force. It would not have used American troops but somehow he would have left."

^^^this fucking guy.

glad to know what kind of Top Secret shenanigans Gingrich would pursue as president

interesting diplomacy in this resolution. no outright hard-handed rebuke to gdfi. a form of words that don't explicitly support insurrection. no clear quid pro quo for actions that contravene expected behaviours.

it will be interesting to see what (and who) were the key players' contributions.

Not suggesting above that this is the end for Gaddafi, as the UN resolution wording seems to designed to deter Gaddafi from advancing past Ajdabiya, on some slim hope of a negotiated or de facto truce.

Gaddafi's troops also need a rest for maintenance and to bring up supplies, and Ajdabiya is the best place for that on the road to Benghazi. A halt would leave nearly all of Libya's oil and water infrastructure in his hands.

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/ArtAndPhoto-Fronts/WORLD_NEWS/EVERGREEN/MIDEAST/Libya-biz-explainer/Libya-Oil-fields-and-pipelines.gif
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41462000/gif/_41462932_libya_water3_map416.gif

hopefully the Free French are still holding out at Bir Hacheim /wwII nerd

Yeah, its kinda interesting revisiting these place names from my cardboard general past. Rommel had two successful offensives staged out of El Aghelia 1941, 1942, and present day Al `Uqaylah/Bishr was just passed by Gaddafi's battalions on Monday.

^i played Afika Corps as a nipper. Rebels need 3-1 odds iirc

Afrika

That really was a terrible map:

http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic674700_lg.jpg

My Western Desert game of choice was:

http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic239377_md.jpg

had the civil war version of that second one

lol I think my dad had that game xp

Back to the modern day, large swaths of the off-road desert in Eastern Libya and Western Egypt are still considered impassible due to forgotten WWII era minefields. If the desert preserves them as well as mummies and the like the last victims of WWII ordinance may happen there, centuries from now.

41 casualties (half fatal) to Egyptian bedouin in 2009 alone.

In an interview broadcast just before the Security Council voted, Gadhafi dismissed its actions. "The U.N. Security Council has no mandate. We don't acknowledge their resolutions," he told the Portuguese public Radiotelevisao Portuguesa. He pledged to respond harshly to U.N.-sponsored attacks. "If the world is crazy, we will be crazy too," he said.

jesus

"If the world is crazy, we will be crazy too," he said.

― omar little, Friday, March 18, 2011 12:00 AM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark

like this is 100% nuts and horrible don't misunderstand but

kind of amazing

yeeeeeahhhhh...

total super villain stuff

like i'm just stunned by the sociopathic hubris of this motherfucker right here

From the Guardian:

There we are: Muammar Gaddafi threatens to "get crazy".

gaddafi is turning into pat o'brien

Guardian keeps it coming:

8.46pm ET: Canada, in a typical display of aggression, has already pledged six CF-18 fighter jets to help impose the no-fly zone in Libya.

So basically the world (via the UN) just declared war on Qaddafi, right? Because the second a plane enters Libyan territory, Qaddafi will order that plane shot at. And then what? Whomever is flying the plane will take offensive action. And by the way, who will be flying those planes on behalf of the UN?

further:

"Any foreign military act against Libya will expose all air and maritime traffic in the Mediterranean Sea to danger and civilian and military facilities will become targets of Libya's counter-attack."

dude is gonna get aced

been off the net for 12 whole hours and... dang. didn't really expect this.

So basically the world (via the UN) just declared war on Qaddafi, right? Because the second a plane enters Libyan territory, Qaddafi will order that plane shot at. And then what? Whomever is flying the plane will take offensive action. And by the way, who will be flying those planes on behalf of the UN?

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, March 18, 2011 12:57 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

ehh sort of but no. the US is not at war with pakistan, it just launches weapons into its territory. ditto somalia.

ehh sort of but no. the US is not at war with pakistan, it just launches weapons into its territory. ditto somalia.

you've gotta put some heavy scare quotes around "war" to make this statement anywhere near true

x-post Yeah, but the Pakistani army is not threatening to shoot down American planes, and we are there at the tacit, under the table invitation of the government. And there's no no-fly zone over Somalia, is there? Even Saddam didn't threaten to fight back, did he?

That said, if Qaddafi goes total war on the world, I put my money on the world. Though this does set an awkward precedent for the rest of the region, Arab League support or no.

Though this does set an awkward precedent for the rest of the region, Arab League support or no.

yeah i don't really understand how this works. dooooon't really see anyone telling saudi arabia to back off in bahrain.

^ the one time i will ever otm history mayne

take it back imo. it'd be pretty deep never to have been otm'd by BIG HOOS.

haha

That whole Gaddafi quote is o_0

""This is craziness, madness, arrogance. If the world gets crazy with us we will get crazy too.

"We will respond. We will make their lives hell because they are making our lives hell. They will never have peace."

http://www.noquickriches.com/storage/Gaddafi.jpg
If the world is crazy, we will be crazy too.
- 6.4 million people were under the sway of this man till one month ago