7.9 and 8.8 Earthquakes in Japan

guys I understand that Tokyo is densely populated

god what the hell aren't you getting here

joeks :-/

don't know if this was posted earlier
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=25e_1300213328

Never a good sign when the US steps in and says it's worse than you think. I was surprised, tbh, that the power company kept pulling people out, too. Like it would be better if the thing goes totally bad? Imagine a fire chief ordering his men back because it's too hot. I mean, I realize it's dangerous and possibly a suicide mission. But so is firefighting and police work and war. It is what it is. This is a handful of nuclear reactors in Japan going sour fast. I think the time to be cautious has passed, unfortunately.

I imagine all the personnel currently trying to shut that plant down know that this is going to kill them

at least with firefighting there's a chance of heroic survival in the face of immediate danger. going into a reactor is like welp maybe i'll get cancer. less of a 'suicide mission' and more of a deal with the devil

gbx pic debunked -> http://i.imgur.com/qxCwb.jpg

But the principle is the same. Who knows how many people will have to deal with radiation effects as it is, let alone if this get totally out of control. Which it may be already.

also you can get radiation poisoning really quickly right? i mean its possible that it could be so bad theyd show up & be entirely unable to perform whatever job

eff me this is so depressing i cant take it

bx pic debunked -> http://i.imgur.com/qxCwb.jpg

― StanM, Wednesday, March 16, 2011 4:56 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

yeah i saw that. "japs" tho >:[

oh wait i mean lol internet

there are some pretty moving stories about firefighters arriving at chernobyl and not being told exactly what is going on, and some of the firefighters not really paying attention to their surroundings or thinking about where they are or what might be happening, and some of the other firefighters tasting metal in their mouths and feeling something "like pins and needles" all over their bodies, and looking at each other and knowing that this is going to kill them, and then going in to fight fires anyway

(we know this stuff cuz of interviews w/ them in the hospital in the month it took them to die)

pics on bbc news of the reactors are terrifying; it looks like a scrapheap.

Meanwhile, in Tokyo:

http://park18.wakwak.com/~weather/uploaddata/radiation.jpg

explain?

ah, geiger readings :-/

Meanwhile, if you're inclined to believe anything the Japanese Atomic Industrial Forum has to say, this is the site with their regular updates (in English).

According to the most recent one (19:00 March 16), measured radiation at the gates of the Fukushima I power plant is 1937 μSv/h. This compares with 6000 μSv/h normal background for passenger jet cruising altitude.

Meanwhile, if you're inclined to believe anything the Japanese Atomic Industrial Forum has to say

Should we believe our own western media who appear extremely eager to exaggerate everything, imho?

FFS if the american authorities wanna sit there and say "hey send in more men you idiots this is serious" why dont they fucking step up to the plate and send some nuclear experts/staff in to help out? Jesus.

is there no way to protect workers that are in the nuke plants with heavy duty shielding or something? i know nothing about any of this btw

um they did do that but there's some question of sovereignty/coordination here it's not like Americans can just barge in wherever and save the world

xp

Should we believe our own western media who appear extremely eager to exaggerate everything, imho?

are you fucking kidding? quo vadis and all that but who do you think has more to lose if they're wrong in this scenario, Japanese authorities or American

The first time I've seen anything to suggest that what was transpiring was anything more than a bungled but likely ultimately successful shut-down of reactors 1, 2, and 3 with no consequences to anyone but TEPPCO employees and shareholders were the comments by the Chair of the NRC linked by Steve Shasta above. This sort of dissent shouldn't be happening between government agencies which have an interest in nuclear power. So, until I see some retractions or amendments of the hair-on-fire cautions by the U.S. NRC, my level of concern has been raised from yellow to orange.

iirc it was the Swedes, not the Soviets, who first raised the flag that something had gone wrong at Chernobyl fwiw. Japanese aren't like the Soviets obviously, but you have to figure the institutional impulse to CYA in any scenario like this is really, really fucking strong

was gonna say, i see no upside for the us govt or nrc to escalate concerns.

Not to get all Sting about this, but I expect the Japanese government to treat its people with more respect, honesty and responsibility than the Russians traditionally have.

Yeah this is totally not a situation where cover ups and face-saving should get priority :/

great now that Russians song is stuck in my head

why would anyone assume that the japanese govt wouldn't be just as craven and CYA as any other govt in this situation?

Yeah this is totally not a situation where cover ups and face-saving should get priority :/

but... this is exactly the kind of situation where cover-ups and face-saving ARE given a priority

As of yesterday 23 people are being treated for radiation exposure in the Fukushima area.
http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html

For all the Chernobyl comparers, that # is pretty small compared to initial 50 first-responder deaths and ~4,000 linked casualties.

At 288 kilometers south of the Fukushima nuclear complex, Tokyo is experiencing a background radiation of 0.8 microsieverts per hour, about 24 times higher than normal but not dangerous.

xp brownie:

Most radioactive particles from this sort of event are harmless unless ingested or inhaled. A thin aluminized-plastic suit with particulate breathing filters will stop all the alpha & beta emitters, but isn't much help against gamma rays.

There appear to be some very high risk sites at Fukushima (the reactor 4 spent fuel rod tank, in particular), and much lower risk areas (reactors 1 & 3, even post explosion, have levels just a little over background.

Tokyo is experiencing a background radiation of 0.8 microsieverts per hour, about 24 times higher than normal but not dangerous

It's always funny the way these things are phrased. ANY level of radiation is potentially dangerous, it's just that the lower it is, the unluckier you have to be for some the emitted energy to hit your cells/DNA and fuck them up. The background radiation of the earth does kill people, just not frequently and not easily measurably. But then the oxygen we breathe probably causes most cancer, via free radicals from suddenly breaking down O2.

thx sanpaku

Heh yeah I can see someone sitting in their room, chain smoking, going "OMG I'm gonna die of radiation!"

The background radiation of the earth does kill people, just not frequently and not easily at all measurably.

well, yes

i mean if you take ANY level of radiation to be "potentially dangerous" then literally the entire illuminated universe is potentially dangerous.

obv I have no idea what kind of work they're doing in there but I guess some sort of robotic contraption is out the question

i mean if you take ANY level of radiation to be "potentially dangerous" then literally the entire illuminated universe is potentially dangerous.

This is what I'm saying. Not that there's anything to be done about it, or that's it's worth worrying about. It's just that declaring certain levels safe or dangerous is pretty arbitrary.

Not sure that whatever point I'm making is worth reinforcing any more, really. I'll shut up about this now.

obv I have no idea what kind of work they're doing in there but I guess some sort of robotic contraption is out the question

I wonder if the radiation close to the core would bugger this up--interfere with remote control or sensitive computer systems. though I guess the main problem is just trying to keep the reactors drowned in cold stuff, which is a bigger-scale thing than a robot would cope with

We obviously need highly-shielded robots or robot suits in the future, imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Ib2efNWDY

Should we believe our own western media who appear extremely eager to exaggerate everything, imho?

― StanM, Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:17 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

have you read any recent posts in this thread

those quotes arent from 'anonymous sources' or some ish thats what a dude testified before a congressional subcommittee

going into a reactor is like welp maybe i'll get cancer. less of a 'suicide mission' and more of a deal with the devil
― FUN FUN FUN FUN (gbx), Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:25 PM (58 minutes ago) Bookmark

also you can get radiation poisoning really quickly right? i mean its possible that it could be so bad theyd show up & be entirely unable to perform whatever job
― deej, Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:27 PM (57 minutes ago) Bookmark

yes. Depending on the amount you're exposed to, you can die in a matter or days or weeks, painfully and not from cancer. Here's a story about some people who were given fatal radiation doses at a hospital: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/24/health/24radiation.html

This is not the thread for it, but I'd like to point out Stephen Colbert also testified before a congressional subcommittee.

I do believe the gentleman in question is very right in his outline of potential dangers, though. I'm getting a really creepy "everything is OK!" vibe off of Japan, especially with the emperor, who has never addressed the public, giving them a message in common Japanese. Tragic things have happened, but something is severely off.

kind of amazed to learn that the emperor has never addressed the public before, btw

also that there is some High Japanese that most ppl wouldn't understand

I had no idea Japan still had an Emperor