100 years from now I'm going to start "taking sides: Wallace Stevens vs. Jean Valentine" & if yr honest Alfred the choice will cause you genuine existential angst
― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 19:54 (thirteen years ago) link
lol alfred i know it was a joke, you just happened to say the things i felt like arguing against :)
― goole, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:06 (thirteen years ago) link
Let's discuss this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marozia
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:10 (thirteen years ago) link
uh woah cadaver trial!
― ENBB, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:11 (thirteen years ago) link
man the dark ages were wild and awesome. i think they get a bad rap, too.
― goole, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:11 (thirteen years ago) link
i think you're prob right
― ENBB, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:12 (thirteen years ago) link
"Pornocracy"!
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:16 (thirteen years ago) link
is there another institution currently in existence that can date itself back 2000 years basically continuously?
― max, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:16 (thirteen years ago) link
― goole, Wednesday, March 16, 2011 4:11 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah for real. there needs to be more movies about this era, or hbo series or something.
― max, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:17 (thirteen years ago) link
The Friars Club
xp
― Fuck bein' hard, Dr Morbz is complicated (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:17 (thirteen years ago) link
would kill for a GOOD miniseries about pre-renaissance rome, or the crusades, or the black death, or something
― max, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:18 (thirteen years ago) link
YES
― ENBB, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:18 (thirteen years ago) link
http://armariummagnus.blogspot.com/2010/02/fall-of-west-death-of-roman-superpower.html
cool bloggy book review of a recent history of the dark ages
― goole, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:18 (thirteen years ago) link
i want to get some plague doktors on my tv
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Stephen_VI
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:19 (thirteen years ago) link
YESSSSS
― ENBB, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:19 (thirteen years ago) link
err x-post
theres something pretty amazing about maintaining a 2000-year contiguity, mostly that you end up with amazing shit like the cadaver synod
― max, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:21 (thirteen years ago) link
My god this is great:
Sergius III was a pope of the Roman Catholic Church 29 January 904 and 14 April 911. Because Sergius III was possibly the only pope known to have ordered the murder of another pope and the only pope to have fathered an illegitimate son who later became pope (John XI), his pontificate has been described as "dismal and disgraceful."[1]Sergius was the son of Benedictus and came from a noble Roman family. His tenure was part of a period of feudal violence and disorder in central Italy, when the Papacy was a pawn of warring aristocratic factions, often led by prominent women.
The pontificate of Sergius III, according to Liutprand of Cremona, was remarkable for the rise of what papal historians saw as a "pornocracy", or "rule of the harlots", a reversal of the natural order as they saw it, according to Liber pontificalis and a later chronicler who was also biased against Sergius III. This "pornocracy" was an age with women in power: Theodora, whom Liutprand characterized as a "shameless whore... [who] exercised power on the Roman citizenry like a man" and her daughter Marozia, the mother of Pope John XI (931–935) and reputed to be the mistress of Sergius III, largely upon a remark by Liutprand
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:21 (thirteen years ago) link
i think the crusades are already pretty 'late' to be talking about the dark ages
xtianisation of rome, battle of milvian bridge: 312fall of rome: 476, traditionallyarrival of islam: 600sgreat schism: 1054first crusade: 1096
anything that happened between like 500 and 1000 is this weird blur
― goole, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:25 (thirteen years ago) link
basically anything between the fall of rome and giotto i find pretty fascinating, on both sides of the schism. the byzantines/ottomans were pretty raw too!
― max, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:27 (thirteen years ago) link
you know what could use a sick multi-part HBO/BBC/canal+ miniseries is the history of venice
does "Pippin" count as a story about the early/mid Dark Ages?
― Nguyễn Bích U Phúc (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:28 (thirteen years ago) link
in From Dawn to Decadence Jacques Barzun tried to rewrite our understanding of the Dark Ages – says the nomenclature is based on clichés. A fabulous book, by the way, if sketchy in places.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:28 (thirteen years ago) link
also, some of the pre-Norman Anglo-Saxon kings seem pretty neat -- esp. Alfred the Great. Venerable Bede is also a favorite. as long as there's no King Arthur/Camelot shit tied in, i think that some sort of miniseries about British kings of that era could be well done.
― Nguyễn Bích U Phúc (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:29 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah for real. there needs to be more movies about this era, or hbo series or something
saw this movie, it kicks ASS:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1181791/
― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link
Seconding Alfred on the Barzun recommendation -- read most of it one long agonizing day stuck waiting in jury duty and it was one hell of the way to pass the time.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:31 (thirteen years ago) link
i really wanted to like Black Death - bean, warner, plague, how can u go wrong - but it failed to grip me tbh
― ℳℴℯ ❤\(◕‿◕✿ (Princess TamTam), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link
one of the great things about the inferno is the volume of popes down there
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link
this might be my favorite thing from the period
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars#Conversion_of_the_royalty_and_aristocracy_to_Judaism_and_relations_with_world_Jewry
― goole, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:35 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.khazaria.com/kuzari/excerpts.html
basic story is that a powerful king asks the philosophers, rabbis, priests and imams to pitch him on upgrading their shamanic tradition and he goes with turning his whole kingdom jewish
― goole, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link
man I loved it - the pacing, and the village, the righteousness of the speeches, the whole predictable-but-killer moral-equivalency stuff - adore that flick
― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:37 (thirteen years ago) link
note that hunting around for 'khazars' and judaism online can get you into some creepy nazi shit :/
xp did you guys like valhalla rising? i was really into it but haven't finished it
― goole, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:38 (thirteen years ago) link
I really, really love the story of the Khazars, it's something else. Michael Chabon did a pretty good serialized story with that as the setting.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:42 (thirteen years ago) link
That kazars thing is REAL?? I thought it was made up as part of that stupid book with a women's version and a men's version?!?
― go peddle your bullshit somewhere else sister (Laurel), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:43 (thirteen years ago) link
+h, sorry.
just read Pope Joan which was a riff off the 'female pope' fable that was mentioned in the Marozia wiki entry: it was a decent read, though nothing mindblowing...
― bugs a. bunny (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:49 (thirteen years ago) link
basically i am looking to watch fantasy TV series but set in irl
― max, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:50 (thirteen years ago) link
basically I want a Marozia biopic in the style of Caligula, and written by Gore Vidal, of course.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:51 (thirteen years ago) link
high hopes for this jeremy irons thing about the borgias, though obviously thats later than im talking
― max, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:53 (thirteen years ago) link
I think there is a character in Pope Joan called Marozia who is a courtesan for elite clients...
...but there's nothing as crazy as the pornocracy in that book!
― bugs a. bunny (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 20:55 (thirteen years ago) link
i want a huge biopic on this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_the_apostate
― goole, Wednesday, 16 March 2011 21:07 (thirteen years ago) link
Gore Vidal's novel is terrific, as is the Gibbon chapter devoted to him.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 21:08 (thirteen years ago) link
dear aero,Could electroconvulsive therapy possibly help people get over religious upbringing, even if it's only temporary relief? And if so, can I buy a taser, write it off as a medical expense, and set up a mobile ECT/deprogramming practice?thanks,
― lowfat dry milquetoast (WmC), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 21:13 (thirteen years ago) link
WmC, I can't speak to religious upbringing outside of the Catholic tradition. I would say just as a guy who's had a lot of therapy is that "getting over" is a concept best worth tabling. The way forward in my experience is seldom over or around but through. #wouldhavemadeagreatnewageguru
― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 16 March 2011 22:42 (thirteen years ago) link
hmph, still wanna tase me some xtians
― lowfat dry milquetoast (WmC), Thursday, 17 March 2011 00:40 (thirteen years ago) link
dear catholics
am I cool to love this awesome book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melmoth_the_Wanderer and still kiw you guys
sincerely
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 17 March 2011 07:31 (thirteen years ago) link
if it helps I am a notable Gerard Manley Hopkins stan
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 17 March 2011 07:32 (thirteen years ago) link
this isn't really a catholic question, but since we're here . . .
four days can be a long time, i guess, but i've never grasped the transition from jc's heralded and popular entry into jerusalem on palm sunday followed by jeering crowds calling for his death on good friday. is this a compression of a longer stretch of time that i missed? were friday's crowds hired goons rounded up by the pharisees?
― mookieproof, Thursday, 17 March 2011 07:54 (thirteen years ago) link
on palm sunday night they went home tired and a bit sunburned and they laid down with their ugly spouses in front of their ugly children and looked at their loser lives and then they looked at jc and they said "I can't process it".
― estela, Thursday, 17 March 2011 10:25 (thirteen years ago) link