a thread about the civil unrest in egypt (& elsewhere in 'the region' if necessary)

Can't imagine that backfiring, oh no.

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/libya0309/s_l29_RTR2JDR8.jpg

the rebel council in benghazi now has a website

http://ntclibya.org/english/

Envoys for Colonel Qaddafi fanned out across Europe and, according to some reports, Latin America and Africa, for purposes that remained obscure. Emissaries were reported to have visited Egypt, Greece, Portugal, Malta and Brussels in an effort to head off international action against Libya, and Greece confirmed that the Colonel himself had spoken with the Greek prime minister, George A. Papandreou. France confirmed that President Nicola Sarkozy will meet with two envoys on Thursday. -NY Times

wkiw dude in #36.

You know what I was just thinking? Those Call of Duty commercials w/ Kobe Bryant and Jimmy Kimmel look REALLY craven right now. Not that I wasn't all wtf in the first place but... y'know...

Looks like the Instant Utopia breakfast mix for Egypt didn't work out.

http://slatest.slate.com/id/2287781/

not sure who you are accusing of naivety here

13 people are dead but on the bright side at least Morbs gets to crow about being right and some unidentified people being wrong.

yeah, I knew that was coming, congrats on the speed

I mean, we get it, you think anyone with any optimism about difficult and complex geopolitical issues is an idiot. I'm not sure there's any need to repeat x100.

Frankly, I don't see any other links above about the current strife, which sorta indicates this thread has moved on from Egypt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/9418922.stm

Noam Chomsky's take.

he seems very sure about what libyans remember or don't remember. 'the west is hated' and i guess always will in his view, because of what italy did in the 1920s. oh well.

countries like brazil and india and south africa, all with spotless human rights records, have the moral authority the_west lack.

ahahaha and turkey. yes.

we have blood on our hands 'in that region', whereas turkey...

Silly Chomsky

he nailed it at the end mind you

I was kind of waiting for a Chomsky-by-ultra-leftist-numbers response to the Libyan crisis.

having been lurking on this thread for a while, I found Chomsky's take to be a refreshing alternative to the various imperialist options being bandied about here.

im pretty sure chomsky's option has been discussed here

how does he distinguish a civil war from a revolution? what's the purpose of that bit of business?

It must be great to reach an age when you don't have to think about or question new situations anymore - you just cut and paste old opinions.

but then humanity basically never changes, eh

i want to live in a wooden house

then making friends would be easy.

Looks like a Guardian journalist and another one from a Brazilian newspaper have disappeared in Libya.

people who live in wooden houses shouldn't throw stones

cause they bounce off the walls and come back at u

shit is dangerous

it's a cold game to play

xxp it's been confirmed that they've been arrested, i think. brazilian officials have supposedly been told that their man will be released. but nothing yet on ghaith abdul-ahad.

what's french for 'recognize'?

lol that jeremy paxman dude was getting so frustrated, love it

SO WHAT SHOULD WE BE DOING?? NOTHING!?

lol this is great just for this british dude's incredulous reactions

"we know how you regard bush's and blair's records in the middle east. do you believe obama's no better?"
"well in many ways he's worse"
*spits out tea*

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/11/world/europe/11france.html?_r=1&hp

France Becomes First Country to Recognize Libyan Rebels
By ALAN COWELL and STEVEN ERLANGER
Published: March 10, 2011

PARIS — Moving ahead of its allies, France on Thursday became the first country to recognize Libya’s rebel leadership in the eastern city of Benghazi and said it would soon exchange ambassadors with the insurgents.

The move was a victory for the Libyan National Council in its quest for recognition and a setback for Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi who has been seeking whatever international support he can as NATO members in Brussels began a debate about the possible imposition of a no-flight zone over Libya.

The French announcement came as loyalist forces in Libya claimed new successes against the rebels west of the capital in the town of Zawiyah, while, to the east, loyalist forces renewed ferocious assaults on the key oil town of Ras Lanuf.

President Nicolas Sarkozy met in Paris on Thursday with Mahmoud Jibril and Ali Al-Esawi, representatives of the Libyan National Council that was set up after the uprising in Libya erupted in February. He was the first head of state to meet with insurgent leaders.

Soon afterward, a French announcement said France recognized the council as the sole legitimate representative of the Libyan people. News reports said that, in response, Libya would break diplomatic relations with France.

Um, isn't that the point? That's the very definition of an empty threat.

Saudi Police open fire at protest.

Fill your tanks.
Buy Canadian oil sands etc.
Fasten your seat belts.

ugh.

Saw them adding another 10c a gallon to gas prices at lunch today.

Coptic Christians were protesting an attack by a group of Muslims on a church in Atfeeh, Helwan, south of Cairo, earlier this week and what they said was a delay in rebuilding the church. The conflict was sparked by a romantic relationship between a Coptic man and a Muslim woman.

Some observers fear that Egypt’s notorious State Security may have instigated the recent wave of sectarian strife in order to distract protesters who are demanding that State Security be dismantled.

In a statement released Tuesday, the Muslim Brotherhood accused the remaining members of the ousted regime of attempting to ignite sectarian tensions to destroy national unity. from the NY Times

Ok Morbs, Egypt is not a perfect democracy yet.

One week after President Obama demanded that Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi cede power in Libya, the president’s top intelligence official predicted on Thursday, “over the longer term, that the regime will prevail” in Libya’s civil war, an assessment that cast significant doubt on efforts so far by the NATO allies to drive him from power.

James Clapper, the director of national intelligence, told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee that Colonel Qaddafi has a potentially decisive advantage in arms and equipment that would make itself felt as the conflict wore on.

The statements by Mr. Clapper, a retired Air Force general who oversees America’s 16 intelligence services, could limit the Obama administration’s options.

No suggestions from Clapper on how to get arms and equipment to rebels? I guess that would be risky for our troops, and the rebels might still lose, is his thinking (shared by other Pentagon realists and by left-wing isolationists alike).

This opening line from Pilger's latest column threw me. "As the US and Britain look for an excuse to invade another oil-rich Arab country, the hypocrisy is familiar." I'd say they were looking for an excuse not to. Does anyone in power in the US or UK - as opposed to neocon pundits - actually relish intervention?

http://www.newstatesman.com/international-politics/2011/03/pilger-assange-sweden

yeah i was pretty shocked to see pilger writing complete horseshit

i don't know about 'relish' but i think there are people who are not neocons who favour helping the rebels

like philippe sands and ming-campbell, both 'staunch anti-iraq war' people, who say the rebels need help

not from the_west of course, but from the african union or arab league

neither of which is being particular vocal about the need for gadaffi to go

where to even start with that pilger article? also what, people still hold julian assange up as a hero?

i'm also completely unimpressed with the hampstead mansion "occupation". maybe try some meaningful targets instead of empty figureheads, professional activists.

TBH I posted the link to bitch about its transcendent wrongness, not because I was surprised. The whole piece is nonsense but something about applying the tired old "blood for oil" narrative to such a confused situation, with the pro and anti intervention camps ranging from right to left, boiled my piss.

Does anyone in power in the US or UK - as opposed to neocon pundits - actually relish intervention?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_economy

tbh i didn't read beyond the bit about tom paine, though i posted it to the wikileaks thread coz it was something someone in 'community' said as a joke

you don't really go to the NS for original thinking

xpost

oh good point louis, whatever it is

I have reëvaluated all commentators as 'entertainment', rather than 'news' or 'politics', and it makes stuff like that much easier to take. Basically form ideas first, then read Pilger/Aaronovitch for amusement or ignore entirely, according to taste. They're just whimsy.

Granted, some are useful for telling you interesting facts, but Pilger is probably not in that category.

oh, that was me stirring. of course america is looking to invade. invasion is usually financial rather than military.

could you expand?