OMG I WANT THIS AMAZING RONALDINHO BOTTLE OPENER

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LJ, do you know who John Peel is, famous Britishes DJ, dead now likes the Fall, y/n?

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:16 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, Nabisco, I can read. Thanks for asking.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:16 (nineteen years ago)

ok, can you COMPREHEND what you read. i guess that's the nut of the thing.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:17 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/slam_dunk/educational_pages/educational_boxes_large/stickybear_reading_comp.jpg

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:18 (nineteen years ago)

she can comprehend, she just chooses not to. this is in the venerable tradition of what the greek call "one's own," or "being an idiot."

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:19 (nineteen years ago)

well that's not very blood diamonds of her, is it?

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:19 (nineteen years ago)

http://static.flickr.com/61/178842673_0101ed571a_m.jpg

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

of course i know who john peel is. my dad brought me up to respect him and i remember the day he died vividly. not just the fall, he was into all kinds of awesome stuff like captain beefheart, the soft machine, mogwai...

now stop patronising me, you blithering cockmaster

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

(Ailsa there was some xposting there, but I seriously don't understand why you keep saying "it was a caricature, he has big teeth, just like Tony Blair" -- as if you're completely missing what people keep repeating over and over, which is that the issue is how the caricature resembles a whole HISTORY of race-caricatures that most of us are not entirely fond of these days. It's not just the teeth, either.)

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

LJ cockmaster in this country means someone who owns chickens, so that's not an insult.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:21 (nineteen years ago)

just don't call him an owl

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:22 (nineteen years ago)

nabisco v v otm that its not just the caricature itself but also the idea of white english 'football' fans buying little trinkets & curios of black men from other countries

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:23 (nineteen years ago)

i fucking hate owls

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:23 (nineteen years ago)

b-but Tony Blair is Scottische , they've been oppressed too , surely more than the bloody afro=brasilians surely !

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:23 (nineteen years ago)

cockmaster also has a secondary connotation with a meaning akin to being a master plumber. i think the word you were looking for, on this side of the atlantic, is picklesmoocher. and i'm glad to see you're down with casual homophobia too LJ, another brilliant facet to that gem of a personality.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:23 (nineteen years ago)

No, I get that, Nabisco. Really. I just don't see *why* people are determined to read more into it and put down the people who go "haha, Ronaldhino has big teeth that would be excellent for opening bottles" and don't see beyond that. Surely seeing it for what it is, not what it might sort of unconsciously be, is a step towards getting rid of people seeing differences between a caricature of Tony Blair and a caricature of Ronaldhino.

(yeah, yeah, lolz at my hippie simplistic attitude, I know)

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:24 (nineteen years ago)

i'm laughing at your smelly armpits, hippie

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

You're clearly equipped with a parry to my every thrust, you pestilent gruntfuttock

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

A lawn jockey, also commonly known as a "Yardell" is a small statue of a man in jockey clothes, intended to be placed in yards. Most today are white jockeys, but historically African-American jockeys were commonplace. A popular lawn ornament in years past, in certain parts of the US, was a cast replica, usually about half-scale, of a black man dressed in jockey's clothing and holding up one hand as though taking the reins of a horse. The hand sometimes carries a lantern. The African-American lawn jockeys often had exaggerated features, such as big eyes with the whites painted in, large red lips, large, flat nose and curly hair. These pieces of were typically carefully painted in gaudy colours for the uniform and the flesh of the statue a uniform gloss black. These statues are considered by many to be highly offensive and racially insensitive.

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

*pestilential

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:26 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.barbaloot.com/images/cockmaster.jpg

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:26 (nineteen years ago)

I just don't see *why* people are determined to read more into it and put down the people who go "haha, Ronaldhino has big teeth that would be excellent for opening bottles" and don't see beyond that.

but i think it's so OBVIOUS to most that to not see beyond it would require ignoring it. and quietly ignoring a racist aspect to something tacitly approves it. i think that's part of it.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:26 (nineteen years ago)

you're the same person that was becky lucas, right?

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:26 (nineteen years ago)

WHY ARE PEOPLE SO DETERMINED TO BE REMINDED OF A HISTORY OF CENTURIES OF UGLY HATEFUL CARICATURE, WHY CAN'T THEY SIMPLY NOT REMEMBER THAT SHIT WHEN THEY SEE SOMETHING UNCOMFORTABLY REMINISCENT OF IT

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:27 (nineteen years ago)

not you kevin, charles dickens upthread i meant

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:27 (nineteen years ago)

LJ grunttfuttock in this country means a fat elf, so congrats you finally insulted me on the third try.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:27 (nineteen years ago)

for the record, i would NOT even for a MOMENT consider buying that bottle-opener.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:27 (nineteen years ago)

TOUCHÉ

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:28 (nineteen years ago)

oh and :-D for the third-dart out-shot!

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:28 (nineteen years ago)

I don't get the distinction some people keep making between the image "in itself" and the racist baggage of the image. it is what it "might unconsciously be," to use your words, Ailsa.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:28 (nineteen years ago)

you know what kind of bottle opener is awesome? the kind that like says a funny saying when you open a bottle. i mean i wouldn't buy one but when my friends have them, it seems to discourage people from drinking because no one is interested in hearing the voice yelling at them about beer! i should get one and maybe, hey, more beer for me :D

the more you know!

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:29 (nineteen years ago)

guys guys dontcha get it? alisa doesn't SEE race!

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:29 (nineteen years ago)

P.S. we've talked about this a little on the political cartoons thread -- how artists have to show a certain level of care when caricaturing certain people to make sure they don't accidentally just create race-caricatures. E.g., you don't "caricature" an Asian person's eyes so they look like some WWII-era Pacific-theater propaganda. If you're exaggerating an Israeli politician's large nose, you want to avoid drawing a guy that looks like he comes from Nazi handbooks. There's just a basic level of care and tact involved here, and some of us react when we feel that it's not being taken, or when it's being pointed -- consciously or not -- in the wrong direction. (E.g., I get annoyed by the way "terrorists" or "radical Islam" in political cartoons invariably have a foot-long nose whose tip points back toward the lips.) (Lucky for me, a deviated septum means my large nose is hooking slightly to the right instead.)

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:29 (nineteen years ago)

BUT THE DARKIE TOOTHPASTE ETC IS REMINISCENT OF OPPRESSION, I GET THAT, WHEREAS THIS IS JUST LAUGHING AT A BLOKE WITH BIG TEETH.

some xposts, no doubt.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:29 (nineteen years ago)

okay, no one is saying, you fucking British racists I bet you all have lawn jockeys! can't we just acknowledge the way race operates without people getting all guilty and then defensive?

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:30 (nineteen years ago)

his teeth aren't even really that big. i mean his gums are pretty big but really it's difficult to gum open a bottle.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:30 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.enduringvision.com/archives/hitler.jpg

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:30 (nineteen years ago)

i mean, he is no john elway

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:30 (nineteen years ago)

alisa, go buy some deodrant

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:30 (nineteen years ago)

why is darkie toothpaste reminiscent of oppression? dude is just chillin in a top hat amirite

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:31 (nineteen years ago)

Okay, okay, I get it. It's not so much that the makers of the opener don't mean it racially, or that a lot of people wouldn't interpret it racially, it's that some people could. In which case fair enough, best not to piss people off, I guess.

The next obvious question to ask is: since I didn't even consider it racist on 1st viewing, does it mean that a) I'm a blithering idiot who doesn't think of the perceived lineage of a joke when I see a joke, or b) I've come on enough (as have a lot of people) that I can see a joke about a black guy without thinking that the joke has anything to do with him being black?

It's c) both, I guess. Hmmm.

― The Wayward Johnny B, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:31 (nineteen years ago)

(it makes me sad when y'all reference the Danish Muhammad cartoon thread because it makes me think all I have ever done on ILX is post 1 million times to the exact same types of thread)

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:31 (nineteen years ago)

i keep reading that as "i've been come on enough..." and laughing, like yeah that is why i don't see race anymore too!!

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:32 (nineteen years ago)

Johnney B OTM (and far more concise and eloquent than I). Want to call him a smelly Britisher for it too?

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:32 (nineteen years ago)

IT MEANS YOU ARE OH SO MUCH MORE ENLIGHTENED THAN US, OH BRAVE AND OPEN-MINDED BRITISH PERSON, PLEASE USE MORE BULLSHIT LANGUAGE ABOUT HAVING "COME ON ENOUGH" UNTIL WE SEE THE WISENESS OF YOUR HAPPY, POST-RACE, UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS WAYS

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:33 (nineteen years ago)

but i think it's so OBVIOUS to most that to not see beyond it would require ignoring it. and quietly ignoring a racist aspect to something tacitly approves it. i think that's part of it

I agree with that. Before I even read the rest of this thread, I saw the first image that Nick posted and was like "holy shit, racist much?"

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:33 (nineteen years ago)

wait johnny b comes on soccer players?

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:33 (nineteen years ago)

yay roasting

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:34 (nineteen years ago)

no no they come on him :D

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:34 (nineteen years ago)

johnny b comes on *black* soccer players

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:35 (nineteen years ago)

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