ongoing racist bullshit in arizona thread

hahahahaha

does saying "props to that jury" = "i don't know, i can sympathize with the pro-death penalty position here" ??

http://www.richardcardcamera.com/

fully get and share (if not necessarily approve of) the human impulse for vengeance/"justice" but still don't think this is a business the state should be in.

this woman is full-on like Ethics Textbook 101 "but what if someone did something REALLY BAD" thought problem level though.

i've seen worse - the petit family murder was a huge deal around here and stirred up a lot of debate about the death penalty - our former governor cited the case when vetoing a legislatively-approved death penalty ban. to me the nature of the crime doesn't matter a bit in whether i think it's ok to kill another person, for others i guess it does

p sure the death penalty krew dont think 'it's ok to kill someone' either, hence cranking up the stakes involved if you do it and get caught.

I'm sorry my earlier posts weren't that coherent, but Kevin really pisses me off by framing the death penalty as a "right-wing" issue. More than 50% of Democrats support the death penalty. It's just not a right-wing issue. It's an everybody issue. I think that the death penalty is in severe need of reform, but that shouldn't lead a person to come out completely against it.

But anyway, this is not a death penalty thread, so we should let it get back on topic. If anybody wants me, I'll be over on ILM trying to convince people than Guns'n'Roses has greater artistic merit than Iron Maiden.

Just rest easy that, given the state of racial politics and the justice system in Arizona, she's likely to be locked up with an awful lot of Hispanics.

to me the nature of the crime doesn't matter a bit in whether i think it's ok to kill another person, for others i guess it does

^^^ this is being a dick. People are talking about understanding the sentiments of others, not "thinking it's ok to kill another person." you understand that, but have chosen to act like a dick instead. as a guy who simply by virtue of advancing age has probably opposed the death penalty 20 years longer than you've been alive, I resent you making people who oppose the death penalty look like dicks.

also, my balls

I was just going to quote that and post themoreyouknow.jpg but your approach is probably more productive.

and by "that" I mean "also, my balls"

I'll be over on ILM trying to convince people than Guns'n'Roses has greater artistic merit than Iron Maiden.
― kkvgz, Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:53 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark suggest death penalty permalink

Also, ceding ground to people who are right-authoritarian on matters of 'some crimes are too horrible to allow the perp to live' is the lazy person's way to cheapen life generally, and misses out valuable opportunities to point out r-a inconsistencies on sanctity of all human life re. family planning issues.

this makes me wonder, what is the industrious person's way to cheapen life

I assume it involves Powerpoint

Powerpoint, guns, ownership of health insurance company...

im anti-death penalty but at the same time in a perfect world i dont really have any problem with the state executing Proven Monsters like timothy mcveigh (its a more humane fate than a lifetime in our barbaric prison system anyway) - its more just that its impossible to have a system where innocent people don't also get merc'd, which seems unacceptable 2 me

^^^ this is pretty much how I feel

Your life is as valuable as how you choose to live it; you don't get to choose the circumstances of your life but you do get to choose how you react to them. You also have to live with the consequences of those actions.

I still wish we did not have the death penalty, but I am not particularly sorry or remorseful about this woman receiving it.

I understand wanting to kill people.

I understand why we have punishments for murder.

I know justice is imperfect and that, to attempt to perfect it and at the same time, treat human life and dignity with the respect they deserve, is very, very expensive - far more expensive than lifetime incarceration.

I am uncomfortable with encouraging victims to steep in their natural desire for revenge, to stay stuck and not transcend a moment of evil.

That said, what better revenge than to deny a murderer all the pomp of execution and let them rot in prison until they die?

The lady's a trainwreck of human being but I don't argue my position about the death penalty out of specifics but out of a bigger and hopefully more dispassionate picture.

Also, prison food.

I do think the most rational answer to "why should the taxpayers pay for [x]" is "because we live in an advanced society".

LWP is a better solution; I'm still not upset about this woman receiving the death penalty. It is possible to not be upset by something you don't support, particularly when you are looking at cherry-picked examples rather than overarching generalities.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over her. I may wake up momentarily terrified at the thought of the jury, though.

I do think the most rational answer to "why should the taxpayers pay for "x" is "because we live in an advanced society".

Really? Death penalty really dates from pre-prison days when cutting your hand off or blinding you wasn't quite enough. Saying that spending shitloads of money in the present age to kill savage humans is 'advanced' is risible.

By all means, draw and quarter them, publicly eviscerate them, whatever, but let us not pretend it has anything to do with advanced civilization, justice or the encouragement of peaceful society.

Er, I think the "x" in that quote is supposed to represent "housing and feeding a murderer for the rest of his or her life."

...

that was an anti- argument

xp: exactly

I'm sorry my earlier posts weren't that coherent, but Kevin really pisses me off by framing the death penalty as a "right-wing" issue. More than 50% of Democrats support the death penalty. It's just not a right-wing issue. It's an everybody issue. I think that the death penalty is in severe need of reform, but that shouldn't lead a person to come out completely against it.

if the death penalty isn't a right-wing issue idk what is. that a majority of democrats support it doesn't reveal anything except 'there aren't very many left-wing democrats in america', which, I mean, duh.

It would be kind of amusing from afar to turn America into a "violence as a first resort" society where all crimes were punishable by death, just to see how long that would last.

hey you have to live (ie die) with the consequences of your actions

iatee otm

i think its clear that determining who is and isnt right wing is the most important thing we can discuss

Er, I think the "x" in that quote is supposed to represent "housing and feeding a murderer for the rest of his or her life."

Clearly I'm an idiot. I hope that's not punsihable by death in iatee's dystopia but maybe it should be.

I have no compunction, however, about arguing against the death penalty (not to mention extremely punitive and very often racist) incarceration policies on the basis of expense. It's fun to watch right-wingers writhe trying to justify inefficient and expensive, big-government policies like the war on drugs while supporting those pesky unions (prison guards) that so distort the body politic.

k3v otm

^^^cosign

death penalty is always wrong and redemption is a real thing

oh good, we are at the point of the argument where we post meaningless compound sentences! my turn:

country music is always terrible and lynching is a real thing

lol fair enough

except that country music is awesome

(sez the guy currently listening to Merle Haggard)

are you saying lynching isn't real??

david lynching is in-between reality and dreamstate

Pima County <3

ha ha - wow!

Clearly I'm an idiot. I hope that's not punsihable by death in iatee's dystopia but maybe it should be.

huh?? what is iatee's dystopia??

he conflated your post with my joke post re: all crimes being punishable by death

haha okay that makes more sense

ftr my dystopia: oklahoma city, if it were filled with italian people

Poor Italian people...

what a relief!

http://www.kpho.com/news/27272012/detail.html

i mean, what

Steven Seagal, Sheriff Raid Valley Home In Tank

PHOENIX -- Sheriff Joe Arpaio rolled out the tanks to take down a man suspected of cockfighting.

West Valley residents in the neighborhood are crying foul after armored vehicles, including a tank, rolled into their neighborhood to make the bust.

* VIDEO: Steven Seagal, Sheriff Raid Valley Home In Tank

Neighbor Debra Ross was so worried she called 911 and went outside where a nearby home had its windows blown out, was crawling with dozens of SWAT members in full gear, armored vehicles and a bomb robot.

“When the tank came in and pushed the wall over and you see what's in there, and all it is, is a bunch of chickens,” Ross said.

In a massive show of force on Monday, the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office executed a search warrant and arrested the homeowner, Jesus Llovera, on charges of suspected cockfighting.

Llovera was alone in the house at the time of the arrest, and he was unarmed.

“I think taxpayers should be shocked,” said Robert Campus, Llovera’s attorney. Campus said he believes the operation costs tens of thousands of dollars.

Deputies had no probable cause to believe Llovera was armed or dangerous, according to Campus.

Campus said he believes the entire scene was basically a stage, to help actor Steven Seagal’s TV show, “Lawman.”

Seagal was riding in the tank.

The Sheriff’s Department has entered into a contract with Seagal and part of that contract gives Seagal carte blanche to go along with the sheriff as he arrests people.

Thousands of dollars in damages were made to the property and 115 birds were euthanized on the spot.

Llovera was convicted of a misdemeanor last year of attending a cockfight and has no history of owning weapons.

Yet the sheriff’s office said they had reasons to believe Llovera might be armed.

“We're going to err on the side of caution. We're going to make sure that we have the appropriate amount of force in case we do run into anything like that,” said Sgt. Jesse Spurgin.

this isn't racist exactly but it is just wtf

does the AZ legislation ever, like, do their jobs and pass laws that are actually legal and can be implemented

lol?

we're doomed