ongoing racist bullshit in arizona thread

That woman lived in my hometown and has a truly bizarre saga. http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20090222/NEWS01/702229930

props to that arizona jury.

no

sweet christ. that link, dan.

god what a heartbreaking little detail:

Posing as border patrol and law enforcement officers, Forde, Gaxiola and Bush, whom prosecutors identified as the gunman, showed up at the Flores home after midnight, several hours after the family had returned from a shopping trip in Tucson to buy shoes for their daughter for summer camp.

She sounds really crazy.

That said I'm still against the death penalty.

yeah jesus that is terrfying

I'm still not for the death penalty. LWP would be fine, though.

Well, as I said I am not for the death penalty either. This case is testing me.

life with electrodes applied sounds right

lol dan lots of people do lots of really horrible shit, shouldn't really affect your opinion on whether the death penalty is OK or not

it helps determine in individual circumstances imo

i mean i dont wanna turn this into a death penalty thread or whatever, but no not really

Once inside, the gunman shot Flores in the chest and Gonzales in the leg. Brisenia (a 9-year old girl who was sleeping on her couch with her puppy before the group banged on the door after midnight) was later shot as she pleaded for her life.

the paranthetical is mine. this case is testing my conflicted feelings for the death-penalty, too.

i don't either, but yes totally xp

Not rah rah death penalty either, but if it represents the strictest punishment available then I'm for that message being sent.

what is the opposite of splitting hairs because that's what you just did

using conditioner?

lol "sending a message" to deter crimes you really really don't like = you're for the death penalty

also to make really bad people die, don't forget

i am against the death penalty, in this instance.

the woman maintains her innocence (i think she does anyway, from earlier stories i've read) and that should be enough not to kill her, even though her guilt has been proven. it's always possible something has gone very wrong in prosecuting this crime. i don't think so, based on what i've read, but the possibility is always there.

as far as "sending a message", i wonder if keeping creepy shitbags like this alive forever is a better example than letting them be executed and forgotten. probably about even tbh (ie not much of an example either way...)

As someone who is extremely pro-death penalty, this verdict is comforting.

But fuck Arizona anyway for all that anti-immigration bullshit. That's so insane.

the woman maintains her innocence ........ and that should be enough not to kill her

kind of a handy condition, that?

yup

u dont gotta go to hell but you gotta get the fuck up out of here

but if it represents the strictest punishment available

LWP is worse in my opinion.

Agreed.

this will really send a message when she's finally executed in 2025

haha otm

death is life's greatest reward

i wonder if anyone even believes the deterrence argument anymore, its like, i think there's a big enough market for vengeance in this country that we can drop the facade and keep on rolling

well obviously millions of people do - as for ilx i sort of stopped being surprised at posters espousing right-wing positions after the last gun control clusterfuck

yeah, i'd guess the motivation for most capital-punishment supporters is revenge/justice, not deterrence.

ilx is too right wing or you kevin? !

incidentally, people -- with some justification -- complained that jarred loughner's behavior shouldn't be blamed on right-wing rhetoric because loughner was crazy. it seems to me there should be a loughner-level outcry about this crime, tho, since the accused has now been convicted (so not crazy) and the line drawn between her actions and right-wing rhetoric seems much more clear.

eh, sorry; maybe that's a stretch.

i wonder if anyone even believes the deterrence argument anymore, its like, i think there's a big enough market for vengeance in this country that we can drop the facade and keep on rolling

the deterrence thing is stupid... for me, the best pro-death penalty argument is more along the lines of 'this person is too far gone to ever be redeemed, and needs to be put down for the sake of humanity'. I'm not going to try to pain that viewpoint as an enlightened one - I am basically a misanthrope who struggles with overwhelming anger/hatred. If I had more faith in the judicial system, I would be hugely pro, but as it is I am sort of pro in my gut, and against in my brain.

k3v - it is pretty obvious by your "distort then mock" tactic that any kind of discussion is pointless so I am gonna check out.

ha don't want to go on record otming it but i was trying to put what rockapads said into words just now. killing killers of 9 yos just seems right to me -- then there's redemption, injustice system, wrongful convictions et al that are real real things and they are there but i can't lie and say they inform my reaction to things like this in a meaningful way.
having not 'thought it through' in the way i think one is supposed to i at least do everyone the courtesy of not being involved with the legal system.
sry kev
i believe in the civilian right to bear arms also, shakier ground calling that a 'right-wing' position but i'll take that bullet. ahem

k3vin why are you being a dick - I know what it's like to want to kill somebody because I'm angry at them - so does everybody except Jesus & Gandhi - I know what it's like to feel like "man this person who did a terrible thing deserves to die for it, that's how terrible it was" - every fuckin human on the planet knows that feeling - I'm still against the death penalty - everybody's felt "fuckin', this asshole should die for what he did" - if you can't cop to that - well, you should be able to because it's really not complicated - basic human feeling imo

tbf to kevin some of us on the pro side are yr actual typically contemptible reactionary kneejerkin neanderthals, just sayin

then there's redemption

You can't possibly be redeemed for killing someone. I don't care what Jesus says.

how bout gandhi?

If neither of those bucks' word is good enough for ya, i doubt there's an ilxor is gonna manage to turn you on this un

yeah sorry i'm not being a dick though - i'm aware that people have irrational emotional responses to things - we all do, it's called being human. you should be able to reject those feelings though the morning after - anyone who thinks another human being who poses no imminent threat to anyone should be "put down for the sake of humanity" - by virtue of being incarcerated - is just, i dunno. killing is wrong

bnw i'd be open to discussing in an adult manner where you think i distorted what you said

k3v otm

and aero look i know you agree with me and everything and you're just practicing your super-empathic M.O. which generally is my worldview as well, so spare me dogg, i get you