abortion classic or dud?

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The next time I hear somebody talkin' about how lame ILX has become and how everything was better back in the day, I will point them to the super brill thread title: "abortion classic or dud?"

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Sunday, 18 September 2005 07:16 (twenty years ago)

haha that toraneko thing i quoted is still the most frightening thing i've ever read on ilx!

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 18 September 2005 08:16 (twenty years ago)

classic as a joke topic when you're pregnant!!

teeny (teeny), Sunday, 18 September 2005 13:21 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

http://yaledailynews.com/story.html


Martine Powers
Staff Reporter
Published Thursday, April 17, 2008
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Art major Aliza Shvarts '08 wants to make a statement.

Beginning next Tuesday, Shvarts will be displaying her senior art project, a documentation of a nine-month process during which she artificially inseminated herself "as often as possible" while periodically taking abortifacient drugs to induce miscarriages. Her exhibition will feature video recordings of these forced miscarriages as well as preserved collections of the blood from the process.

The goal in creating the art exhibition, Shvarts said, was to spark conversation and debate on the relationship between art and the human body. But her project has already provoked more than just debate, inciting, for instance, outcry at a forum for fellow senior art majors held last week. And when told about Shvarts' project, students on both ends of the abortion debate have expressed shock — saying the project does everything from violate moral code to trivialize abortion.

But Shvarts insists her concept was not designed for "shock value."

"I hope it inspires some sort of discourse," Shvarts said. "Sure, some people will be upset with the message and will not agree with it, but it's not the intention of the piece to scandalize anyone."

The "fabricators," or donors, of the sperm were not paid for their services, but Shvarts required them to periodically take tests for sexually transmitted diseases. She said she was not concerned about any medical effects the forced miscarriages may have had on her body. The abortifacient drugs she took were legal and herbal, she said, and she did not feel the need to consult a doctor about her repeated miscarriages.

Shvarts declined to specify the number of sperm donors she used, as well as the number of times she inseminated herself.

Art major Juan Castillo '08 said that although he was intrigued by the creativity and beauty of her senior project, not everyone was as thrilled as he was by the concept and the means by which she attained the result.

"I really loved the idea of this project, but a lot other people didn't," Castillo said. "I think that most people were very resistant to thinking about what the project was really about. [The senior-art-project forum] stopped being a conversation on the work itself."

Although Shvarts said she does not remember the class being quite as hostile as Castillo described, she said she believes it is the nature of her piece to "provoke inquiry."

"I believe strongly that art should be a medium for politics and ideologies, not just a commodity," Shvarts said. "I think that I'm creating a project that lives up to the standard of what art is supposed to be."

The display of Schvarts' project will feature a large cube suspended from the ceiling of a room in the gallery of Green Hall. Schvarts will wrap hundreds of feet of plastic sheeting around this cube; lined between layers of the sheeting will be the blood from Schvarts' self-induced miscarriages mixed with Vaseline in order to prevent the blood from drying and to extend the blood throughout the plastic sheeting.

Schvarts will then project recorded videos onto the four sides of the cube. These videos, captured on a VHS camcorder, will show her experiencing miscarriages in her bathrooom tub, she said. Similar videos will be projected onto the walls of the room.

School of Art lecturer Pia Lindman, Schvarts' senior-project advisor, could not be reached for comment Wednesday night.

Few people outside of Yale's undergraduate art department have heard about Shvarts' exhibition. Members of two campus abortion-activist groups — Choose Life at Yale, a pro-life group, and the Reproductive Rights Action League of Yale, a pro-choice group — said they were not previously aware of Schvarts' project.

Alice Buttrick '10, an officer of RALY, said the group was in no way involved with the art exhibition and had no official opinion on the matter.

Sara Rahman '09 said, in her opinion, Shvarts is abusing her constitutional right to do what she chooses with her body.

"[Shvarts' exhibit] turns what is a serious decision for women into an absurdism," Rahman said. "It discounts the gravity of the situation that is abortion."

CLAY member Jonathan Serrato '09 said he does not think CLAY has an official response to Schvarts' exhibition. But personally, Serrato said he found the concept of the senior art project "surprising" and unethical.

"I feel that she's manipulating life for the benefit of her art, and I definitely don't support it," Serrato said. "I think it's morally wrong."

Shvarts emphasized that she is not ashamed of her exhibition, and she has become increasingly comfortable discussing her miscarriage experiences with her peers.

"It was a private and personal endeavor, but also a transparent one for the most part," Shvarts said. "This isn't something I've been hiding."

He, he

am0n, Saturday, 19 April 2008 05:39 (eighteen years ago)

rereading this thread has proven to me, pretty much definitively, that anyone who says ilx hasn't gone downhill is full of shit. it's hardly a perfect thread, but it's worthwhile and thoughtful in a way that 99% of ilx isn't, anymore.

Charlie Rose Nylund, Saturday, 19 April 2008 06:43 (eighteen years ago)

She did admit it was all a hoax, though. (xpost)

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/yale-abortion-hoax-performance-art/2008/04/18/1208025477707.html

StanM, Saturday, 19 April 2008 07:53 (eighteen years ago)

Stam "comin' correct" M

roxymuzak, Saturday, 19 April 2008 13:53 (eighteen years ago)

*STAN

roxymuzak, Saturday, 19 April 2008 13:54 (eighteen years ago)

rereading this thread has proven to me, pretty much definitively, that anyone who says ilx hasn't gone downhill is full of shit. it's hardly a perfect thread, but it's worthwhile and thoughtful in a way that 99% of ilx isn't, anymore.

-- Charlie Rose Nylund, Saturday, 19 April 2008 06:43 (7 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Good point here from somebody I've never heard of.

Noodle Vague, Saturday, 19 April 2008 13:57 (eighteen years ago)

She did admit it was all a hoax, though. (xpost)

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/yale-abortion-hoax-performance-art/2008/04/18/1208025477707.html

-- StanM, Saturday, 19 April 2008 07:53

man ur supposed to let it become a shitstorm thread first before dropping that

am0n, Saturday, 19 April 2008 16:31 (eighteen years ago)

Oops, sorry :-(

Maybe her hoax admission was a hoax too and it was true after all?

StanM, Saturday, 19 April 2008 16:39 (eighteen years ago)

The abortifacient drugs she took were legal and herbal, she said...

lol

Bodrick III, Saturday, 19 April 2008 16:42 (eighteen years ago)

Young person showing bad judgement in pursuit of attention shockah!

Aimless, Saturday, 19 April 2008 17:50 (eighteen years ago)

seven months pass...

Outrage over Planned Parenthood Christmas 'gift' cards
'It is difficult to think of a more tasteless, ghoulish thing to give anyone'
Posted: November 26, 2008
9:05 pm Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images/misc/pp.jpg

Planned Parenthood's "gift" certificates

Planned Parenthood, which in past years has promoted a "Choice on Earth" abortion campaign during the Christmas season, has a new outreach, offering Christmas gift certificates to be used for abortions.

"It is difficult to think of a more tasteless, ghoulish thing to give anyone. I refuse to refer to these financial instruments as gifts as they are nothing more than a legal way to put a hit out on someone," said a participant in a forum at the online Lone Star Times, where the plan was reported.

"Planned Parenthood, this generation's King Herod, you know, the guy who ordered the mass slaughter of babies when Jesus was born," added WND columnist Jill Stanek, who also documented the plan on her blog.

Display the classic magnetic bumper sticker: "Former embryo on board," only from WND's store.

According to the Lone Star Times, the nation's leading player in the abortion industry is "celebrating the most important crisis pregnancy of all time by selling gift certificates, perfect for the woman who has everything but moral fiber … And it's so much easier than finding the perfect 'Baby's First Christmas' ornament."

According to WISH-TV in Indianapolis, the controversial plan has people talking.

"People are making really tough decisions about putting gas in their car and food on their table, so we know that many women especially put healthcare at the bottom of their list to do," Chrystal Struben-Hall, an official for the abortion business, told the station.

The report said the certificates come in $25 increments and can be used for everything from birth control to $58 examinations that include breast exams and pap tests.

"They can be seen for sexually transmitted disease screenings, HIV tests and general prostate exams and those kinds of things," said Struben-Hall.

But can they be used for abortions?

Of course, Struben-Hall said. "We decided not to put restrictions on."

Stanek has campaigned to alert the American public of President-elect Barack Obama's extreme pro-abortion position. In fact, Obama considered partial birth abortion a "legitimate medical procedure" and opposed a requirement that abortionists provide life-preserving care for infants who survive abortion attempts, because of the burden it would impose on the abortionist.

On the Lone Star Times forums page, the reactions ranged from horror, to, well, horror:

* "A gift for those who only want to kill the very innocent."

* "Good for one dead baby."

* "Redeem this at Planned Parenthood. No other redemption possible. Ever."

* "I cannot think of a more evil organization."

* "What a marvelous way for the donor as well as the recipient-user to have blood on their hands."

* "No matter what you believe about abortions this has GOT to disgust people that you would 'give' that kind of thing as a gift to someone!?? I mean WHO would you give it to??? 'Here best friend in case you ever need an abortion.'"

* "I met a woman once who CELEBRATED her abortion because she was 'happy that no MAN could tell her what to do with her body.' It was all I could do to walk away silently without puking in her face. She's the kind of person that would give all the women she knew one of these gift death certificates.

WND has reported Planned Parenthood's various "Choice on Earth" campaigns at Christmas.

One promotion included a "holiday" card that said, "'Tis the season to share with family, friends, colleagues and loved ones the message of 'choice on earth.'"

At that time Jim Sedlak, executive director of American Life League's STOPP International, slammed Planned Parenthood.

"In its continual attempt to 'normalize' abortion, Planned Parenthood has once again chosen to offend the Christian community by releasing the latest edition of its 'Choice on Earth' holiday cards," said Sedlak in a statement. "Contrary to the open-minded image the abortion organization aims to present for itself, Planned Parenthood has zero tolerance for anyone – or any religious group – that recognizes abortion as an evil act that kills a pre-born baby."

The controversial theme is derived from a passage in the Gospel of Luke, where an angel announces to shepherds the birth of their savior in Bethlehem.

The King James version of the Bible states: "And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying, 'Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.'"

"By replacing 'peace' with 'choice,' or more accurately, 'killing the innocent on earth,' Planned Parenthood is essentially saying 'abortion on earth,'" Sedlak said. "This blatant mockery of Christian values – and of Christ Himself – truly demonstrates the bigoted, anti-religion, anti-God nature of Planned Parenthood."

WND reported during the 2008 presidential election campaign when Obama's team struck out at an abortion survivor.

It happened when an Obama advertisement implied the abortion survivor was part of a "sleazy" campaign for promoting a "despicable lie" about the senator's voting record.

Abortion survivor Gianna Jessen's responded, "I've dealt with worse; I survived an abortion."

As WND reported, the 31-year-old Jessen, who was born alive following her mother's botched abortion, made a television advertisement highlighting Obama's votes against born-alive infant protection bills while he was serving as a state senator in Illinois.

The Obama campaign responded with an advertisement of its own labeling Sen. John McCain's campaign ads as "sleazy" and "truly vile," while showing clips from Jessen's ad in the background, including a photo of Jessen.

Jessen then created another commercial in response, opening with clips of the Obama campaign's ad, which she says amounted to a personal attack.

"Seen this ad? In it, Senator Obama personally attacks me," Jessen says in the commercial. "I've dealt with worse; I survived an abortion."

The latest ad from Jessen can be seen below:

Jessen's organization, BornAliveTruth.org, is responsible for the advertisement and was not – as Obama's advertisement implied – connected to the McCain campaign.

dat dude delmar (and what), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 19:28 (seventeen years ago)

to answer the original question:

Never on the first date.

warmsherry, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 19:35 (seventeen years ago)

My feeling about that woman who survived her teenaged mother's attempted abortion is: did the abortion give you that underbite? Because THAT is something I would resent.

One Community Service Mummy, hold the Straightedge Merman (Laurel), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 19:42 (seventeen years ago)

classic!

as a dude (goole), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 19:44 (seventeen years ago)

whatever happened to C on Ts?

Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 19:45 (seventeen years ago)

a shower

Tanganyika laughter epidemic (gbx), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 19:55 (seventeen years ago)

I can't even begin to describe how angry that article made me. Fucking idiots.

Lady Gorgorrand (ENBB), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 20:26 (seventeen years ago)

Oh and in case I needed to clarify I didn't mean the people at PP I meant whoever wrote and was quoted in that piece of shit "article".

Lady Gorgorrand (ENBB), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 20:27 (seventeen years ago)

"Sounds like a get out of being knocked up free card. It also sounds about as exciting as a set of new tires for the car. Can you see a mom giving one of these to a daughter ans telling her here is something to use when you screw up? I can't. "

Shithead. OK, I have to stop reading these now.

Lady Gorgorrand (ENBB), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 20:28 (seventeen years ago)

If you follow to the original story, the gift certificates are intended to be used for routine health care. There are no restrictions, but clearly the story has been put thru the WMD distortion filter.

̿̿ ̿̿'̿\̵͇̿̿\=(•̪●)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿ (libcrypt), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 20:41 (seventeen years ago)

WND, not WMD.

̿̿ ̿̿'̿\̵͇̿̿\=(•̪●)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿ (libcrypt), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 20:42 (seventeen years ago)

Yeah I know, exactly! That was what I was angry at - the distorted perspective of the article! I don't have any probs with the certificates themselves.

Lady Gorgorrand (ENBB), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 20:54 (seventeen years ago)

where is kitten "I can has abortion?" .jpg

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 20:56 (seventeen years ago)

Display the classic magnetic bumper sticker: "Former embryo on board," only from WND's store.

when I wake up I see my self bearfooted (clotpoll), Wednesday, 3 December 2008 00:32 (seventeen years ago)

Bad freaking journalism, there.

Abbott of the Trapezoid Monks (Abbott), Wednesday, 3 December 2008 01:42 (seventeen years ago)

I love a good abortion, me.

chap, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 01:50 (seventeen years ago)

I don't think anyone ever uses abortion as "birth control," there aren't really any blasé "oops lol pregnant again?" women. Or so few as to nullify the percieved truth of the meme.

Abbott of the Trapezoid Monks (Abbott), Wednesday, 3 December 2008 01:50 (seventeen years ago)

^^^
This is true, similar to the tabloid meme in this country of the council estate woman pumping out babies just to get benefits; it may happen very very occasionally, but not nearly enough to warrant the cutting of child benefits.

chap, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 01:54 (seventeen years ago)

Abortion is way too expensive, for one thing!

Abbott of the Trapezoid Monks (Abbott), Wednesday, 3 December 2008 01:55 (seventeen years ago)

Though SURPRISINGLY its price has been almost untouched by inflation (thank god – the $400 I spent was still several months' free money, including groceries).

Abbott of the Trapezoid Monks (Abbott), Wednesday, 3 December 2008 01:56 (seventeen years ago)

Not if those darn liberals get their way!

xpost

chap, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 01:57 (seventeen years ago)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/tracerhand/snewlaw.gif

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 08:57 (seventeen years ago)

from feministing:

Conservatives are freaking out because Planned Parenthood in Indiana is offering gift certificates. Granted, a pap smear is not the most exciting Christmas gift I can think of, but it sure is practical. Oh, wait -- you mean they're claiming these are going to be used for abortions? As if that's all Planned Parenthood does? I'm shocked.

links to news article:

The certificates come in $25 increments. They can be used for everything from birth control to $58 examinations that include breast exams and pap tests. Men who receive healthcare at Planned Parenthood can use them too.

"They can be seen for sexually transmitted disease screenings, HIV tests and general prostate exams and those kinds of things," said Struben-Hall.

Some Hoosiers 24-Hour News 8 talked to asked if the gift certificates could be used towards abortions. The answer is yes. But, Planned Parenthood said that's not the purpose of the gift certificates.

Struben-Hall said, "They really are intended for preventative healthcare. We decided not to put restrictions on the gift certificates so it's for whatever people feel they need the services for most."

schlump, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 14:06 (seventeen years ago)

I had an abortion when I was in my early 20s. The abortion was far less traumatic than having a baby and giving it up would have been. I knew I was not ready/able to be a mom. I got pregnant while using birth control. My boyfriend was a mean mofo. Best decision I ever made. The clinic was clean and caring. No regrets here.

Maria :D, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 16:47 (seventeen years ago)

this looks quite interesting

schlump, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 17:20 (seventeen years ago)

Femifisting.

I'm Ted Bell (libcrypt), Wednesday, 3 December 2008 18:17 (seventeen years ago)

ahhh those were the days, like candy from a fetus

Kiwi, Thursday, 4 December 2008 09:59 (seventeen years ago)

ugh ugh ugh fuck wnd seriously

BIG WORLD HOOS. WEBSTEEN. (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 4 December 2008 10:09 (seventeen years ago)

meanwhile, on their way out of power:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-te.conscience30nov30,0,7247123.story

Rule will strengthen right to refuse care
Measure focuses on health workers' 'right of conscience'

By David G. Savage | Tribune Washington Bureau
November 30, 2008
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration is planning to announce a broad new "right of conscience" rule permitting medical facilities, doctors, nurses, pharmacists and other health care workers to refuse to participate in any way in morally "objectionable procedures" such as abortion and possibly including birth control and artificial insemination.

For more than 30 years, federal law has dictated that doctors and nurses may refuse to perform abortions. The new rule would go further by making clear that health care workers may also refuse to provide information or advice about abortion to patients.

It also seeks to cover far more employees. For example, in addition to a surgeon and a nurse in an operating room, the rule would extend to "an employee whose task it is to clean the instruments," the draft rule said...

Brotherhood of Stealing Shit to Sell to Trader Caravans (kingfish), Thursday, 4 December 2008 15:21 (seventeen years ago)

^ That is fucking ridiculous. If you don't want to dispense accurate MEDICAL information to which all your patients have a right then don't become a health care professional. Fuck.

I am helping with an annual meeting for the MA Emergency Contraception Network this afternoon. I wonder if this will be brought up.

Also, I love Jennifer Baumgardner.

Lady Gorgorrand (ENBB), Thursday, 4 December 2008 15:51 (seventeen years ago)

Yeah, I read a quote from some religious spokesperson about how this will protect Catholic hospitals etc who said they should be protected from both PERFORMING the services, and also from having to REFER anyone to another practitioner. I mean, REALLY?@?@?

One Community Service Mummy, hold the Straightedge Merman (Laurel), Thursday, 4 December 2008 15:54 (seventeen years ago)

have definitely run into some srsly pro-life ppl at med school :-/

Tanganyika laughter epidemic (gbx), Thursday, 4 December 2008 15:58 (seventeen years ago)

I'm sitting at my desk coding surveys we're conducting regarding educational attainment among preg and parenting teens. I just worked out that one of the respondents got preg at 12. So great we already don't provide these kids with accurate comprehensive sex ed and now we're going to further restrict their access to vital reproductive and sexual health services? Way to go Bush!

Lady Gorgorrand (ENBB), Thursday, 4 December 2008 15:58 (seventeen years ago)

x-post

One of my prof is currently doing a study on med students and their decision whether or not to be trained to preform abortions. It sounds pretty interesting from what she's told me.

Lady Gorgorrand (ENBB), Thursday, 4 December 2008 16:01 (seventeen years ago)

That recent article (somewhere online?) was interesting, about the woman in med skoo who thought all the way through that she'd be an abortion doc but ended up realizing that even though she still supports students being trained to do abortions, a different field was a better fit for her.

One Community Service Mummy, hold the Straightedge Merman (Laurel), Thursday, 4 December 2008 16:05 (seventeen years ago)

Oooh, interesting. I'm going to see if I can find that. If you remember where it was online def let me know.

Lady Gorgorrand (ENBB), Thursday, 4 December 2008 16:06 (seventeen years ago)

WaPo

One Community Service Mummy, hold the Straightedge Merman (Laurel), Thursday, 4 December 2008 16:07 (seventeen years ago)


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