ILX TOP 50 FILMS OF 2000-2004 BALLOTS/VOTING - ends Jan. 3

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meh, I'm talking guys with a lower profile, and oft with less ties to trad narrative filmmaking, than Almodovar. via Netflix or urban arty stores.

I call "pacey, actiony, well-executed" BIGSCREEN TV

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Beats the shit out of that Miyazaki creepfest molesto-twee dying mystical civilizations everywhere bullshit.

whatsamatta? didn't you LOVE kiki's delivery service?

also, guess what.

kingfish holiday travesty (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:42 (eighteen years ago) link

If they brought shit like CASSHERN and IMMORTEL to the little art house in my neighborhood I'd hella go, but mainland china epics, american indies and eurowhatever is so frequently disappointing of late I just can't be bothered.
Completely right. I've probably missed some good films that came through, just because I don't even bother checking the weekly listings for my local art-houses (two Magnolia theatres and an Angelika, the Magnolias are heavy with shit I can see at any 30-plex and the Angelika is loaded with gay-themed films. Nothing wrong with that, but most of them seem to have been produced entirely because they were gay-themed and that's a helluva niche market.)

I could see a lot more foreign films through Netflix and DVDs, but I've finally broke down and admitted that I just don't like movies as much on a small screen. Even when I love something, being on my couch, with my little TV or computer, I get too many distractions. Nothing replaces a good cinema experience.

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Fundamentally, the act of watching a film is dictated by its efilmerality; considering rockist tendencies like watching a film in a single uninterrupted sitting, there is far less flexibility to the watching experience than with other media. TV has commercial breaks, books have chapters and no preconceived notion of how much you're supposed to read at a time. I've lost my original point, but film needs to be entertaining first, though "entertaining" here is a vague and catchall term I'm using -- you might say "engaging" instead.

Obsessing over the unobtainable and nonexistent. (Leee), Friday, 16 December 2005 22:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Steamboy sucks. Miyazaki sucks.

[jailhouse tattoo] (nordicskilla), Friday, 16 December 2005 22:39 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost

Most baffling use of "r*ckist" evah, or I'm just old.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 December 2005 22:41 (eighteen years ago) link

I find i tend to read foreign films more than watch them. I can't ever manage to read the words and focus on the images on the screen at the same time, so it always feels incomplete in one way or the other. Or, at the very least its a slightly less coherent experience than watching an english language film.

Also foriegn films tend to play in the arthouse theaters, which are always small and uncomfortable with bad sound systems. thats no fun.

brontosaur, Friday, 16 December 2005 22:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Morbs, is it? I think I'm using it in a very standard way, albeit applied to cinema. (I admit, though, that I forgot that I used it.)

Obsessing over the unobtainable and nonexistent. (Leee), Friday, 16 December 2005 22:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, except that it doesn't really apply to cinema in any useful way at all.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Friday, 16 December 2005 23:24 (eighteen years ago) link

So I'm NOT trying to be a Flaming Bag of Poop here, but why do Generation Y, culturally aware, collidge-educated people seem to avoid foreign-lang films more than any recent gen? cuz it's clear Tsai ming-Liang ain't got a prayer aginst Spider-Man 2 here. Is it that folks who geek out on 'obscure' music haven't got thetime for same in film?

Short answer: Pauline Kael.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Friday, 16 December 2005 23:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Insofar as there are expectations of the ideal effect of cinema and a rigorous and specific method of experiencing the cinema, there's an analogous rockism involved.

Obsessing over the unobtainable and nonexistent. (Leee), Friday, 16 December 2005 23:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Short answer: Pauline Kael.

I really shouldn't bite here, but Pauline Kael loved and promoted tons of foreign films. What exactly are you getting at?

'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 17 December 2005 07:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Kael never, I believe, reviewed a Fassbinder film.

I dunno what arthouses are generally like outside NYC; I'm sure their dodgy budgets means technical problems, but if it's a challenging and worthy film, you put up with stuff. I saw the third LOTR perfectly projected with a rapt crowd at Lincoln Center and felt grouchy throughout.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 17 December 2005 17:53 (eighteen years ago) link

I really shouldn't bite here, but Pauline Kael loved and promoted tons of foreign films. What exactly are you getting at?

Maybe early on, but by the late 70s she almost exclusively supported American "New Hollywood" shit that had felt the influence of post-war Euro cinema but, more importantly, the American filmmakers championed by la politique des auteurs. (This isn't to say that there weren't individual non-American films she supported, but she certainly covered less and less world cinema--this is position is still v. evident at The New Yorker).

I don't really think she soley deserves the blame for lack of interest (and lack of availability (in theaters and the press) is really the main problem) in world cinema, but much of it has to do with the kind of provincial attitudes she fostered.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Who told you that? What work of hers makes her seem more indictative of these 'provinical attitudes' than the majority of american critics? It seems arbtirary and ridiculous to single her out for a trait she's not even particularly indicative of.

'Twan (miccio), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:22 (eighteen years ago) link

It's true that she reviewed fewer foreign films as she got older and frail and was no longer able to hunt down movies for herself, but when so many critics can't look farther than 'Il Postino' it seems bizarre to accuse her of 'fostering' this quality in American cinematic appreciation.

'Twan (miccio), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Who told you that?
There's a nice dialogue between Rosenbaum and Natasa Durovicova at the end of Movie Mutations that touches on this and a number of others have written on the topic, but I've read plenty of Kael's writing and it's pretty evident that she cared much less about world cinema when De Palma, Peckinpah, Coppola et al started producing moderately sophisticated American spectacle.

I don't think the "majority of American critics" is a very good standard with which to judge someone's openness to world cinema.

I don't have a single work for you, I'll look through For Keeps later and pull quotes if you want, but her focus became very American-centric later in her career (and this is taken to its logical extreme by self-confessed Paulettes like David Denby).

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:36 (eighteen years ago) link

So Americans became less interested in foreign film when Pauline Kael got excited about American filmmakers in the 70s. I think its a bit of a leap.

'Twan (miccio), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:39 (eighteen years ago) link

It's true that she reviewed fewer foreign films as she got older and frail and was no longer able to hunt down movies for herself, but when so many critics can't look farther than 'Il Postino' it seems bizarre to accuse her of 'fostering' this quality in American cinematic appreciation.

Il Postino came out way after Kael stopped writing--you're talking about critics working now.
Kael didn't have to hunt anything down she was based in San Francisco and New York during the high-point of American awareness of world cinema.
Again, I'm not soley blaming Kael, my answer above was pithy, but I do think the attitude that Morbius was describing and the attitude that a film must be first-and-foremost "entertaining" owe a lot to her (even if her actual writing was occasionally a little more nuanced).

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Admittedly, I wasn't around in the pre-Star Wars era, but this seems like a big accusation to throw at someone because they raved about the Godfather. And she reviewed plenty of foreign films! For Keeps is a selective look at her work, not a complete bibliography.

'Twan (miccio), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:46 (eighteen years ago) link

So Americans became less interested in foreign film when Pauline Kael got excited about American filmmakers in the 70s. I think its a bit of a leap.

It's not merely the championing of American films, but the notion that once Americans started making use of New Wave devices, there was no longer any need to actually see New Wave films (and certainly no reason to pay attention to contemporary world cinema).

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:47 (eighteen years ago) link

did she ever say that you shouldn't pay attention to contemporary world cinema?

'Twan (miccio), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Admittedly, I wasn't around in the pre-Star Wars era, but this seems like a big accusation to throw at someone because they raved about the Godfather.

She was the most well-known American film critic writing!

And she reviewed plenty of foreign films! For Keeps is a selective look at her work, not a complete bibliography.

I know that, and I've read stuff of hers that's not in For Keeps, it's the just only one I still own.

I don't really like Kael at all and, as I have repeated, I'm not soley blaming her. I think much of this has to do with the Paulettes and what others took from Kael's writing--which was admittedly a little more nuanced. But I don't think it's unfair to associate her with an attitude that largely bears her impress.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:53 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean one of her most famous pieces of the late part of her career was about why the American movie system is totally fucked! She hated on those American would-be-auteurs before most of her peers. I learned about many foreign films by reading her work - to accuse her of promoting ignorance is wrong-headed. Though, yes, she did like 'entertaining' films.

'Twan (miccio), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:54 (eighteen years ago) link

kael started off almost exclusively pro-world cinema - "i lost it at the movies" contains only ONE rave review of an american film ("lolita," tho she does praise "on the waterfront" and a few others with reservations) and loads of enthusiastic, brilliant reviews of films like "the golden coach," "fires on the plain," and "jules and jim." she spent the first 15 years of her career writing about what was WRONG with american movies; who could blame her for getting excited when films like "the godfather" started coming out?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 18 December 2005 18:08 (eighteen years ago) link

i guess we know who to blame for the film geeks who claim that the '70s tower--cinematically--above every other decade

gear (gear), Sunday, 18 December 2005 18:10 (eighteen years ago) link

she definitely had something to do with that, yes.

'Twan (miccio), Sunday, 18 December 2005 18:13 (eighteen years ago) link

I just got out the Complete New Yorker set to check something -- Kael's first piece for the magazine (about old movies on TV) was in July, 1967, and her first review was in October '67. (Bonnie and Clyde, FYI.) Here's a question for people who are more familiar with Kael than I am (ie everybody) -- did she have any fame as a film critic before starting to write for the New Yorker, or was that her first big exposure?

I do feel guilty for getting any perverse amusement out of it (Rock Hardy), Sunday, 18 December 2005 19:28 (eighteen years ago) link

she did reviews for a radio station in berkeley and a few other places. Allegedly got fired from McCalls for trashing The Sound Of Music.

'Twan (miccio), Sunday, 18 December 2005 19:29 (eighteen years ago) link

She also programmed/wrote program notes for a theater (I think it was called The Cinema Guild or something like that) in San Francisco and did a bunch of freelance work.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 18 December 2005 20:21 (eighteen years ago) link

27 ballots in

Remember, the address for blurbs is ilxblurbs@modsvsrockers.net.

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Monday, 19 December 2005 03:28 (eighteen years ago) link

I take it my nominations of How's Your News and Spring Forward were snipped from the ballot because IMDB lists them both as 1999 films. It's up to you, Erick, but I'd make the case for both as 2000s films, even if no one else cares.

Spring Forward's only '99 screening was at the Toronto Film Festival in September, and it didn't get released on DVD until September 2002. It really made the festival rounds in the 2000s.

As for How's Your News, according to IMDB, the first screening of the film was actually in 2001 at the same festival. IMDB might have the date screwed up because the project was based on a TV series that began earlier.

Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 05:48 (eighteen years ago) link

I.e.

Arguably:
Spring Forward (Gilroy, 2000)

Somewhat less arguably:
How's Your News? (Bradford, 2001)

Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 05:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, IMDB had the last call on dates. I didn't want to go into the release details of each and every one and correct them, it would only effect a small number of films (which, by and large, wouldn't garner many votes) and some would have been in the '90s and '00s poll (The Virgin Suicides as mentioned on the other thread).

HYN appears to be a screwup on IMDB's part, so votes for it would be OK. But anything that had a festival screening or anywhere, IMDB counts it as that year.

Addition:
How's Your News (Bradford, 2001)

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 06:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Cool. Rather than make a tenth nomination, let me just say, Spring Forward would have been close to my number one. So would the original The Vanishing in the '90s poll. Filmmakers should never premiere a film in the waining months of a decade.

Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 20:19 (eighteen years ago) link

(Speaking of non-English-speaking films.)

Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 23:19 (eighteen years ago) link

My ballot:

1. Cast Away (Zemeckis, 2000)
2. Mulholland Dr. (Lynch, 2001)
3. About a Boy (Weitz, 2002)
4. The Village (Shyamalan, 2004)
5. How's Your News? (Bradford, 2001)
6. Los Angeles Plays Itself (Andersen, 2003)
7. The Yes Men (Ollman, Price, 2003)
8. Legally Blonde (Luketic, 2001)
9. White Diamond (Herzog, 2004)
10. School of Rock (Linklater, 2003)
11. Meet the Parents (Roach, 2000)
12. Best in Show (Guest, 2000)
13. Sideways (Payne, 2004)
14. Before Sunset (Linklater, 2004)
15. Punch-Drunk Love (Anderson, 2002)

Three least-favorite films:

Irreversible (Noe, 2002)
Monster's Ball (Forster, 2001)
Fat Girl (Breillat, 2001)

Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 23:22 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't see nearly enough non-English-speaking films. But it doesn't help when people hype transgressively soulless crap like Baise Moi and Irreversible and Fat Girl, or skilled failures like In the Mood for Love (which puts me in the mood for sleep) and Bus 174 (which plays on the basest sense of reality-TV dread)...

Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Thursday, 22 December 2005 00:29 (eighteen years ago) link

I think the problem is that the non-American films that get most hyped are often exactly the "controversial" ones, which often suck regardless - or because - of their "shocking" content - Irreversible and Ichi the Killer are fine examples on this poll. The more quiet yet lovely films that have little controversial in them - such as Look at Me, The Waiting List, or Kitchen Stories (all of which are in my personal top 5) - get far less attention.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Hmm, The Waiting List probably didn't get much attention in the US also because it's made in Cuba, and it's sorta pro-socialism (though not pro-Castro in any way, more like pro-socialism-as-an-unreached-dream).

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:28 (eighteen years ago) link

Here's my ballot, loads of non-English speaking! Plus hours of non speaking full stop in the case of numbers 1 and 5.

1. Cremaster 3 (Barney, 2002)
2. The Werckmeister Harmonies (Tarr, 2000)
3. Spirited Away (Miyazaki, 2001)
4. City Of God (Meirelles, Lund, 2002)
5. Belleville Rendezvous / Triplets Of Belleville (Chomet, 2003)
6. The Isle / Seom (Kim, 2000)
7. A Time For Drunken Horses (Ghobadi, 2000)
8. Tropical Malady (Weerasethakul, 2004)
9. Avalon (Oshii, 2001)
10. Songs from the Second Floor (Andersson, 2000)
11. Memories Of Murder (Bong, 2003)
12. Spider (Cronenberg, 2002)
13. Kung Fu Hustle (Chow, 2004)
14. Nobody Knows (Koreeda, 2004)
15. Little Otik (Svankmajer, 2000)

And the three shittiest films of the decade are :

Amelie (Jeunet, 2001)
Kill Bill: Vol. 1 (Tarantino, 2003)
Minority Report (Spielberg, 2002)

I'm sure there's way shittier, but why would I bother sitting through them when I could watch something good?

Matt #2 (Matt #2), Thursday, 22 December 2005 11:25 (eighteen years ago) link

I forgot to add my three least-favorite when I sent my ballot, so:

About Schmidt
Charlie's Angels
Moulin Rouge

I do feel guilty for getting any perverse amusement out of it (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 22 December 2005 14:51 (eighteen years ago) link

You should all rent Decasia over the holidays.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 23 December 2005 19:47 (eighteen years ago) link

This was my ballot:

1. O Brother, Where Art Thou? (Coen, 2000)
2. In the Mood for Love (Wong, 2000)
3. Master And Commander: The Far Side of the World (Weir, 2003)
4. Spirited Away (Miyazaki, 2001)
5. Kill Bill: Vol.2 (Tarantino, 2004)
6. Spellbound (Blitz, 2002)
7. Ghost World (Zwigoff, 2001)
8. The Royal Tenenbaums (Anderson, 2001)
9. Sideways (Payne, 2004)
10. Shaun of the Dead (Wright, 2004)
11. Bad Santa (Zwigoff, 2003)
12. Punch-Drunk Love (Anderson, 2002)
13. Together (Chen, 2002)
14. Napoleon Dynamite (Hess, 2004)
15. Minority Report (Spielberg, 2002)

Worst (of the ones I've seen):
The Corporation (Abbott, Achbar, 2003)
The Hours (Daldry, 2002)
...there weren't any others I really disliked from this list

o. nate (onate), Friday, 23 December 2005 20:10 (eighteen years ago) link

I forgot to add my three least-favorite when I sent my ballot, so:
About Schmidt

Hurrah!

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 23 December 2005 20:39 (eighteen years ago) link

hmm i might have voted for the Aviator if i was thinking straight. oh well! maybe in the 2000-2009 poll?

gear (gear), Monday, 26 December 2005 07:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Y'all are crazy stupid voting on this shit NOW. None of you have any clue what your favorite movies from this period are, because you aren't even going to know about a good bunch of them that have already come out but that no one will hear about for another five to ten years.

Good job validating the box office bitches.

Pinhead, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 05:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Two days left.

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Monday, 2 January 2006 01:51 (eighteen years ago) link

i haven't read the thread beyond the first few posts but can someone tell me if i can vote for films that are not on the list?

jed_ (jed), Monday, 2 January 2006 03:03 (eighteen years ago) link

jed I think you can

1) Together (Moodysson, 2001)
2) Mulholland Dr. (Lynch, 2001)
3) Monsters Inc. (Docter, Silverman, 2001)
4) Talk to Her / Hable con ella
5) Amandla! A Revolution In Four Part Harmony (Hirsch, 2002)
6) You Can Count on Me (Lonergan, 2000)
7) Dude, Where's My Car (Leiner, 2000)
8) The Man Who Wasn't There (Coen, 2001)
9) Waking Life (Linklater, 2001)
10)Shaolin Soccer (Chow, 2001)
11)The Corporation (Abbott, Achbar, 2004)
12)Bad Santa (Zwigoff, 2003)
13) Lost in Translation (Coppola, 2003)
14) Scratch (Pray, 2001)
15)The Incredibles (Bird, 2004)

least favorite:
Amelie
El Crimen del padre Amaro
Lord Of The Rings: Return of The King

tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 2 January 2006 03:29 (eighteen years ago) link


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