a thread about the civil unrest in egypt (& elsewhere in 'the region' if necessary)

if only we had been warned about the military-industrial complex

pretty awesome having that egyptian lover track going on top of the bbc live feed

America's military socialism is more advanced than most other countries'.

but we're about to make enormous cuts in the defense budget! CHANGE

hey morbz, maybe right now, at this particular moment in history, on this particular thread, you don't have to be such a cynical shit (or at least keep it to yourself)

morbs report

http://grab.by/8U47

Mubarak supposedly secured $70B over the years for him and his family...

haha there are people on facebook doing the morbs sober wet blanket routine, do they really think no one has thought of these omg serious insights theyre offering

If he really wanted to secure his place in the hearts of his people, he should see if he could get permission to live in Israel.

haha, i believe you, dr. m. i'm also jealous you got to meet dj/rupture.

I hear Mubarak has already packed up one of the pyramids and shipped it off to Switzerland.

fine, Mordy and icey, y'all enjoy your butterscotch & lollipops moment.

(I believe Woody Allen calls such "shit" realism rather than cynicism. I hope there's democracy in Israel someday too btw.)

jesus im more cynical than most people here but sincerely FUCK OFF

do they have a statue to pull down?

buh-bye

You know what's funny? I've actually seen morbs smile irl.

I pet doggies too.

he is v pleasant imo

lol, morbs never fails to disappoint

no, morbs is right, this is exactly like when obama got elected. think about it: have you ever seen obama and the 1.25 million egyptian protestors in the same room together? no! i rest my case.

woody allen and many other people their points of view realism

BTW, Egypt seems to be a country that, like Thailand, finds orderly transition anathema/impossible. Naguib forced to resign. Nasser died suddenly in office to be succeeded by Sadat. Sadat is assassinated, then comes Mubarak (who surely would not have lasted 30 years without US backing). But I suppose that's a pretty typical post-colonial trend. Admittedly, in the grand scheme of things, this ongoing outcome seems less disruptive than some of its antecedents.

oh great let's make another thread about morbz rmfe

we could just all sb him

Josh, that's what makes THIS awesome. Who knows what it will turn into but for once a genuinely popular braodbased coalition of people actually changed the govmt. You could posit that the free officers were widely followed in '52 but this seems far more organic than that.

Oh, c'mon, ice...

i think every democracy has to have some kind of popular mythic element. maybe the brits don't, lol. it's always possible for things to go wrong, but i think the memory of this moment will reverberate and further politics will have to be grounded in it.

Personally, I'm not cynical, but I am nervous.

As of now, we have a military government.

Trying to guess what Kenneth Cole is thinking right about now.

they, not we, obv

maybe the brits don't

Magna Carta, Civil War, Glorious Revolution, Chartists, Suffrage movmnt...

The man in charge now

i think every democracy has to have some kind of popular mythic element. maybe the brits don't, lol. it's always possible for things to go wrong, but i think the memory of this moment will reverberate and further politics will have to be grounded in it.

― goole, Friday, February 11, 2011 5:11 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

the closest we have is the second world war and the transition to s.thing like social democracy that followed -- it used to be quite potent

the things MW mentions are a bit remote and the outcome of the civil war was sort of fucked up

State radio reported that Naguib Sawiris, a wealthy and widely respected businessman, has agreed to act as a mediator between the opposition and the authorities in carrying through the political reforms, a development that was cheered by protesters

NY Times

well that and the fact that there's still a queen ffs

xpost

Naguib Sawiris, the self-proposed chair of the "Transitional Council of Wise Men", is similar in some ways to Badrawy. Sawiris is a patriotic, successful nationalist businessman. Sawiris heads the largest private-sector company in Egypt, Orascom. This firm has built railways, beach resorts, gated-cities, highways, telecom systems, wind farms, condos and hotels. He is a major Arab world and Mediterranean region financier.

He is also the banner carrier for Egypt's developmentalist nationalists. On February 4, Sawiris released a statement proposing a council of wise men who would oversee Suleiman and the police - and who would lead Egypt through the transition. The proposed council would be a so-called "neutral, technocratic" body that would include Sawiris, along with a couple of non-ideological members of the Muslim Brotherhood's business wing, some strategic-studies experts, and a Nobel Prize winner. Would this Nobel winner be Mohammed ElBaradei, the peace laureate and opposition leader? Nope. They had found an Egyptian laureate in organic chemistry.

They have a queen, Tracer, 'cause the last time they tried a republic Christmas got banned and theaters were closed.

Congrats to DJ /rupture for pulling down the statue of Obama in Cairo

more like Govt/rupture

I don't know anything about Sawiris but as I touched upon upthread, the number of people in Egypt reliant on the public sector is huge and a massive burden on the economy. Mubarak's so-called neo-liberalism of late was really not much more than cronyism.

elbaradei being interviewed on al-j right now

hella outgoing links in this piece:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/02/the-internet-explodes-as-egypts-dictator-finally-quits/

reporter just asked him if they plan to prosecute the dictatorship and he said it's time to look toward the future

I think it's essential to recognize that while the military may currently be in control, this is the same military that refused to fire upon its own people. So that's something. If it was a military lead coup, that'd be another animal entirely.

the things MW mentions are a bit remote and the outcome of the civil war was sort of fucked up

So why does this stand outside the Palace of Westminster then?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9uZT4Lt5cTQ/SdvMydQQ28I/AAAAAAAABio/33J89n7gAkM/s400/Cromwell.jpg

... better photo:

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/82643821.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA54855FB8E1FCE045D7AFD4600325CF8430EEC7AD67650B91748E30A760B0D811297

oh everybody gets a statue, nbd

xpost to Josh

This is the same military that has been in control since 1952, that Mubarak was part of (he was head of the Air Force), that is entangled with every level of government in the country and has a finger in business deals, and is not about to give that all up.

They've positioned themselves very cleverly as somehow a neutral force between the people and the regime, but in reality they are the regime.

Just saying protesters have to keep the pressure on.

to my knowledge there's no major statue of richard 'lord protector' cromwell. but i mean there's yer answer really. it was going to go hereditary.

other democracies have avoided this problem, of course.

xpost

oh everybody gets a statue, nbd

Indeed, but its positioning is a tad significant

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Naguib_Sawiris.jpg/200px-Naguib_Sawiris.jpg

Sawaris