a thread about the civil unrest in egypt (& elsewhere in 'the region' if necessary)

^ yeah, i'd agree with that, but that's fine in a historical sense.

just talking out my ass here, in order for liberalism to take hold and be a force to be reckoned with in a society, a constituency of liberals has to grow. the events of the past few days point to a lot of bottled up energy in egypt for such a thing but it's hard to know numbers, and decades of emergency/military/autocratic rule means there aren't any other institutions to turn to

Frankly, giving the military their due maybe the only guarantor of liberalism, perhaps more so than democracy.

O RLY? Egypt's army 'involved in detentions and torture'

yeah didn't mean to snark, this is a real improvement. xpost

what army isn't involved with that

there are plenty of countries that have made transitions from authoritarian gov'ts to better ones, all people want to talk about is iran or maybe turkey. there are plenty of latin american examples... pinochet still has his defenders!

you could replace 'truly democratic' w/'liberal democracy' if that helps

― ice cr?m, Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:00 PM

liberal! u mean moonbat!?!?

that's a little fractured, what i meant is that the 'bad regime' never really disappears because there are always people left who loved it.

xp

Egypt Charges Government Figures with Corruption

Egypt's state prosecutor has launched a corruption investigation against three former government ministers and a member of parliament from Egypt's ruling National Democratic party, as protesters in Cairo's Tahrir Square continued anti-government demonstrations for a 17th day.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Egypt-Charges-Government-Figures-with-Corruption-115720774.html

Murbarak quits tonight

amazing. so awesome.

― lmao reminisces about his days in southern china (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:25 AM

it is!

― ice cr?m, Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:28 AM

http://www.biomedresearches.com/root/images/Animated-Flag-Egypt.gif

like the CIA guy said to Charlie Wilson, "We'll see."

morbs just outed himself as a company man, knew it!

morbius did 9/11!

question i guess is to what extent the military are willing to yield to reform and how the protestors react

― ice cr?m, Thursday, 10 February 2011 11:04 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I'm guessing the military will take a Turkish style role, with the threat of a coup hanging over the civil government if they stray too far from what they deem acceptable.

What they will always deem unacceptable is the kind of economic reform Egypt needs, alas.

ironically there's an idea floating around out there that the regime flirted more and more with neoliberalism recently, but with an economy that is majority informal (!!) and there aren't clear lines of ownership of most of the land it's hard to know what that really meant or whether it was any good. there's a stock market! yaaay.

ignoring what's actually going to happen, it's totally obvious to me and hernando de soto that the ideal situation would just be to give legal title to the people that are already on the land (i don't know much about population distribution in egypt but i assume this would lead to pretty widespread land ownership.)

any alternative points of view here? it's such a kneejerk neoliberal response for me that i'm interested to have it tested.

is anybody else watching CBS' live feed...? the size and scope of the tent village/protesters in the square is nuts

stock market's lost 25% since this all started. unsurprisingly it's worst performing stock market this year (dunno why mongolia's is the best)

Egypt's information minister has just told Reuters Mubarak "definitely not going to step down"

Sky are translating a supposed leaked draft from al Arabiya just now - it will be a timetable for change, plus tinkering with various minor articles of the constitution. If that's right, it's not what everyone's expecting.

here we go

this fucking guy

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

watching on al jazeera english. politicians everywhere in all the fucking same shocker. shameless

this fucking guy

not bothering watching the rest of this tbh

this is terrible

so more riots then eh

DEMONSTRATORS IN LIBERATION SQUARE WAVE THEIR SHOES AT HOSNI MUBARAK

like the CIA guy said to Charlie Wilson, "We'll see."

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:55 PM

that could not have been more underwhelming

otm.

not at tv or real computer, what'd he end up saying?

I'm not stepping down, we'll amend this and that, here's two committees, violence will not be tolerated yadda yadda yadda

this dude is gonna end up with his head on a pike unless he gets the army to crush the opposition

mubarak says "psyche"

doh

is anybody else watching CBS' live feed...? the size and scope of the tent village/protesters in the square is nuts

― lmao reminisces about his days in southern china (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:38 PM

watching this now

here are the bbc summaries/tweets:

2046: Mr Mubarak is live on state TV.

2046: Egypt is calling for a change, he says

2047: Promises to punish those who injured and killed protesters.

2048: Mubarak: I will not listen to diktats from abroad.

2050: Mubarak: I will not stand down until an elected government can take over.

2051: Mubarak: Looks forward to continuing to rule with the support of all of those people who are eager for the safety and stability of Egypt.

2052: Mubarak: Peaceful transfer of power will take place from now until September.

2057: As Mubarak continues to talk, it is now very clear that he will not be announcing his departure from power. He has made it clear he will stay on until September elections. It is highly unlikely this will go down well with the crowds gathered in Tahrir Square.

2105: Reports say Mr Mubarak is delegating power to his vice-president. It seems he is not stepping down, but he is handing some responsibilities to his deputy.

2107: Boos and jeers ring out from Tahrir Square. They're not happy.

2110: Egyptian academic Mamoun Fandy says Mr Mubarak's words "will not wash". He says: "These young people are too smart. I don't know whether the disaster will start tonight or tomorrow, but we're in for a huge confrontation. Whoever wrote that speech is living in a bubble."

Worsening crowd reaction reminded me of a hip hop gig where the promoter comes on three hours late to explain why the headliner is still en route from the airport.

maybe it was bbc sound mixing, but the crowd went nuts around the middle of the speech, the rest was a lot of nationalist-sounding stuff, i wonder if any of them heard it.

that speech came across like his new strategy was to try to bore everyone in tahrir sq into going home. legalese accountant-type shit about articles and amendments, thought he was gonna start talking about spreadsheets, veering into a self-aggrandising potted autobiography like a senile father of the bride? christ. this fucking guy.

also lol deja vu, it was a fortnight ago i first sat down to watch what would surely be mubarak's resignation speech only to gradually realise that it was gonna be no such thing

al jaz subtitles briefly confused me by saying he'd transferred power to suleiman - turned out he'd just delegated a few duties to him. why even bother making concessions if they're gonna be that inadequate

Worsening crowd reaction reminded me of a hip hop gig where the promoter comes on three hours late to explain why the headliner is still en route from the airport.

ha i was just about to accuse you of biting dorian off twitter when i realised it's your new username! i loled.

lex otm

lol

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/stratfor-reports-mubarak-has-already-left-country-speech-prerecorded

vaguely depressing how the outcome is dependent, i guess, on the army. talking of whom when are they going to get off the fence? am i wrong, or does no one really know what they're going to do or what side they're on?

2115: Full quotes from Mr Mubarak's speech: "I was a young man as well when I joined the military and pledged to the nation and sacrificed to the nation. I spent my life defending Egypt's life and sovereignty. The best days of my life were when I raised the flag of Egypt over the Sinai and when I flew plans [planes?] in Addis Ababa. There was no day when I was affected or gave in to foreign pressure."

2116: Another quote from Mr Mubarak's speech: "I believe that the majority of Egyptians know who Hosni Mubarak is and it pains me what has been expressed by some people from my own country. I am aware of the dangers facing us and out of my belief that Egypt is going through a very significant phase in its history, this compels us all to put the interests of the nation first and put Egypt above any consideration."

2119: Lina Wardani, a journalist from al-Ahram newspaper who is in Tahrir Square, tells the BBC: "There is extreme disappointment in Tahrir tonight. This was not the speech the nation was waiting for and was certainly not the speech the protesters in Tahrir were waiting for. Right now there seems to be confusion. There are a lot of people walking out of the square very disappointed, you have more people saying they are leaving right now but just getting a good night's sleep before they come back tomorrow for another very long, very large protest ."

guess i don't have to do that but some ppl said they couldn't get any live streams

it's appriciated!